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	<title>Comments on: Why Iraq is not a rerun of Vietnam</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/</link>
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		<title>By: The Sewer Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32555</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sewer Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32555</guid>
		<description>Surely one of the biggest differences between teh anti-war movement (at least in Europe) tehn and now is that back in those days tehre were powerful and respected Communist (Stalinist) parties?  I&#039;m afraid te SWP and &#039;Respect&#039; jut don&#039;t cut it.  And, Deen, do you think that teh Iraqis/Afghans/whoever are ready for self-govenment if they go around killing each other a teh slightest provocation?  Seems a trifle barbaric and anti-socialist to me.  But, quite frankly, I&#039;d leave them to get on with it, we have enough of our own problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely one of the biggest differences between teh anti-war movement (at least in Europe) tehn and now is that back in those days tehre were powerful and respected Communist (Stalinist) parties?  I&#8217;m afraid te SWP and &#8216;Respect&#8217; jut don&#8217;t cut it.  And, Deen, do you think that teh Iraqis/Afghans/whoever are ready for self-govenment if they go around killing each other a teh slightest provocation?  Seems a trifle barbaric and anti-socialist to me.  But, quite frankly, I&#8217;d leave them to get on with it, we have enough of our own problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Glesga</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32424</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Glesga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32424</guid>
		<description>Capt Swing. Wilson could not change US policy as Cousins should have known. Silly question to ask. Wilson&#039;s answer was diplomatic! As ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capt Swing. Wilson could not change US policy as Cousins should have known. Silly question to ask. Wilson&#8217;s answer was diplomatic! As ever.</p>
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		<title>By: captain swing</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32423</link>
		<dc:creator>captain swing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32423</guid>
		<description>@ Jimmy Glesga

Indeed. Wilson often gets a bad press nowadays, but he kept British troops out of Vietnam.

He critised some American actions in Vietnam, but contined to say he supported their overall policy there.

When trade union leader Frank Cousins asked why he continued to support American policy, Wilson replied: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Because we can&#039;t kick our creditors in the balls&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.newstatesman.com/200004100025</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jimmy Glesga</p>
<p>Indeed. Wilson often gets a bad press nowadays, but he kept British troops out of Vietnam.</p>
<p>He critised some American actions in Vietnam, but contined to say he supported their overall policy there.</p>
<p>When trade union leader Frank Cousins asked why he continued to support American policy, Wilson replied: <i>&#8220;Because we can&#8217;t kick our creditors in the balls&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/200004100025" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/200004100025</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Glesga</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32417</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Glesga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32417</guid>
		<description>Capt Swing. I was a teenager also. Harold Wilson did the right thing keeping out. Better his prices and income policy than geting involved in the mass slaughter of civilians. I wonder if the last of the US forces will be airlifted from the Embassy roof in Kabul and the fate of the poor natives left to the Taliban.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capt Swing. I was a teenager also. Harold Wilson did the right thing keeping out. Better his prices and income policy than geting involved in the mass slaughter of civilians. I wonder if the last of the US forces will be airlifted from the Embassy roof in Kabul and the fate of the poor natives left to the Taliban.</p>
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		<title>By: captain swing</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32410</link>
		<dc:creator>captain swing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32410</guid>
		<description>Agree with Bill Corr &lt;i&gt;&#039;There is no valid comparison with Iraq at all.&lt;/i&gt;

First of all it was what you might call a &quot;proper war&quot; (I wish I could think of a better phrase for it). The Americans were fighting North Vietnam (and their army) and the Viet Cong, the Americans never really defeated these two, unlike the ill equipped Iraqi Army of Saddam. And also China and the Soviet Union provided aid to North Vietnam.

This resulted in nearly 60,000 American deaths and an estimated two million Vietnamese deaths, much worse than Iraq.

American deaths led to steady flow of coffins returning to America which eventually led to mainstream America coming out against the war.

The anti-war demonstrations also had much more traction than the anti-Iraq war demos. They were something new and novel (often ending in violence) and had the support of the new &quot;counter-culture&quot;, which many young people wanted to feel, if not part of, then associated with. You could say the zeitgeist of the time supported those opposed to the war. (There was no &#039;Decent&#039; secton of the left saying we must support America against these Commies)

And of course, despite intense American pressure, Harold Wilson refused to send British troops to Vietnam, even a token force (he once entered a cabinet meeting saying &lt;i&gt;&quot;I&#039;ve just had LBJ on the phone saying can we send a bagpipe band to Vietnam&quot;&lt;/i&gt;)

As a footnote, there were secret peace talks going on in 1968 between North and South Vietnam. These were sabotaged by Nixon during his 1968 election campaign when he contacted the South Vietnamese government. The terms of the 1973 Paris Peace Accords were not very much different from what the Vietnamese were discussing in 1968.

Persoanlly, I have to say as a young teen in the late-60s I found what was going on in America much more riveting than what was going on here with Harold and his prices and income policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Bill Corr <i>&#8216;There is no valid comparison with Iraq at all.</i></p>
<p>First of all it was what you might call a &#8220;proper war&#8221; (I wish I could think of a better phrase for it). The Americans were fighting North Vietnam (and their army) and the Viet Cong, the Americans never really defeated these two, unlike the ill equipped Iraqi Army of Saddam. And also China and the Soviet Union provided aid to North Vietnam.</p>
<p>This resulted in nearly 60,000 American deaths and an estimated two million Vietnamese deaths, much worse than Iraq.</p>
<p>American deaths led to steady flow of coffins returning to America which eventually led to mainstream America coming out against the war.</p>
<p>The anti-war demonstrations also had much more traction than the anti-Iraq war demos. They were something new and novel (often ending in violence) and had the support of the new &#8220;counter-culture&#8221;, which many young people wanted to feel, if not part of, then associated with. You could say the zeitgeist of the time supported those opposed to the war. (There was no &#8216;Decent&#8217; secton of the left saying we must support America against these Commies)</p>
<p>And of course, despite intense American pressure, Harold Wilson refused to send British troops to Vietnam, even a token force (he once entered a cabinet meeting saying <i>&#8220;I&#8217;ve just had LBJ on the phone saying can we send a bagpipe band to Vietnam&#8221;</i>)</p>
<p>As a footnote, there were secret peace talks going on in 1968 between North and South Vietnam. These were sabotaged by Nixon during his 1968 election campaign when he contacted the South Vietnamese government. The terms of the 1973 Paris Peace Accords were not very much different from what the Vietnamese were discussing in 1968.</p>
<p>Persoanlly, I have to say as a young teen in the late-60s I found what was going on in America much more riveting than what was going on here with Harold and his prices and income policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Glesga</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Glesga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32408</guid>
		<description>Dean.Bush and Blair will die in their beds. Blair will probably get sainthood for doing the lords work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean.Bush and Blair will die in their beds. Blair will probably get sainthood for doing the lords work.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32406</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32406</guid>
		<description>&quot;No official attempted cover up like Mai Lai.&quot;

Well no. However, sending mentally ill drunken racist misogynists
with weapons of destruction around neighbourhoods where dark skinned people reside and no one being accountable for that decision does feel sort of inadequate. I don&#039;t know about the victims of the Iraq war but personally only when Bush and Blair are rotting in jail will I be happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No official attempted cover up like Mai Lai.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well no. However, sending mentally ill drunken racist misogynists<br />
with weapons of destruction around neighbourhoods where dark skinned people reside and no one being accountable for that decision does feel sort of inadequate. I don&#8217;t know about the victims of the Iraq war but personally only when Bush and Blair are rotting in jail will I be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Deathy</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32402</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Deathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Speaking of long running battles, but given the end of the Gray/Hilton v. Kaschke case, will Southpawpunch finally explain themself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of long running battles, but given the end of the Gray/Hilton v. Kaschke case, will Southpawpunch finally explain themself?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Corr</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32400</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Corr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=2446#comment-32400</guid>
		<description>Les Abbey - Simple, give the EDL a little training and arm them.

Problem solved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Les Abbey &#8211; Simple, give the EDL a little training and arm them.</p>
<p>Problem solved.</p>
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		<title>By: LesAbbey</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/07/why-iraq-is-not-a-rerun-of-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-32398</link>
		<dc:creator>LesAbbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Volunteer armies made it easier for Bush and Blair to fight wars, but the alternative is...

I think we need to look at citizens service again in relation to the military, policing and other activities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Volunteer armies made it easier for Bush and Blair to fight wars, but the alternative is&#8230;</p>
<p>I think we need to look at citizens service again in relation to the military, policing and other activities.</p>
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