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	<title>Comments on: Jos massacres: the case for secularism</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/</link>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27692</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27692</guid>
		<description>&quot;Former neo liberal&quot; strikes one as a thick cunt.

And lo and behold he is a thick cunt.

I wooD have it murdered. In it&#039;s bed. along with it&#039;s family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Former neo liberal&#8221; strikes one as a thick cunt.</p>
<p>And lo and behold he is a thick cunt.</p>
<p>I wooD have it murdered. In it&#8217;s bed. along with it&#8217;s family.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue R</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27680</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27680</guid>
		<description>Dear Neo-Liberal, you say that you want to see a capitalist Middle East that functions as a unitary bloc, I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask you a) how you see this being achieved and b) how the project would be financed.  Any answers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Neo-Liberal, you say that you want to see a capitalist Middle East that functions as a unitary bloc, I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask you a) how you see this being achieved and b) how the project would be financed.  Any answers?</p>
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		<title>By: Former neo liberal</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27644</link>
		<dc:creator>Former neo liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27644</guid>
		<description>I am not sure you should view it through an Islamic world prism. Or a Christian world prism. Or a Hindu prism or an atheist prism.

And Should they form this or that is not the issue, I am saying what they will be compelled to do or what will be the general tendency, not what they should do!! This doesn&#039;t mean you can explain what every country will end up doing! It is a process that will be inexact especially as the imperialist nations will do all they can to influence events. As I have stated on numerous occasions what makes economic sense may not happen!! But the struggles of the future will be around it happening or it being prevented from happening!!

What type of industries really is a strange question, the EU countries haven&#039;t changed their industries as a result of its formation but because of absolute monetarist economics, which are part of the globalisation of capital. These blocks would develop in the same way I would imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure you should view it through an Islamic world prism. Or a Christian world prism. Or a Hindu prism or an atheist prism.</p>
<p>And Should they form this or that is not the issue, I am saying what they will be compelled to do or what will be the general tendency, not what they should do!! This doesn&#8217;t mean you can explain what every country will end up doing! It is a process that will be inexact especially as the imperialist nations will do all they can to influence events. As I have stated on numerous occasions what makes economic sense may not happen!! But the struggles of the future will be around it happening or it being prevented from happening!!</p>
<p>What type of industries really is a strange question, the EU countries haven&#8217;t changed their industries as a result of its formation but because of absolute monetarist economics, which are part of the globalisation of capital. These blocks would develop in the same way I would imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue R</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27643</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27643</guid>
		<description>Is there anyone promoting this politics in the Middle East?  Also, where do you put the rest of the Islamic world; ie Pakistan, Indochina?  Should they form a separate bloc?  What type of industries do you see a united Middle East developing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there anyone promoting this politics in the Middle East?  Also, where do you put the rest of the Islamic world; ie Pakistan, Indochina?  Should they form a separate bloc?  What type of industries do you see a united Middle East developing?</p>
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		<title>By: Former neo liberal</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27642</link>
		<dc:creator>Former neo liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27642</guid>
		<description>I see the emergence of &#039;super blocks&#039; coming out of economic imperatives brought about by globalised capitalism. The power of the US, China, and the EU will compel other nations to look to this model of organisation as the most advanced, successful model. So I would expect to see attempts made at developing these blocks in the Middle East, Latin America, Africa - we are already seeing tentative moves in Latin America and Africa and in the Middle East it has been tried before and firmly put back in its place. Though there have been interesting developments in the Arab league in the last decade (the observer nations etc), so the potential exists. The point is that the imperialist powers will do all they can to prevent it under the pretext of fighting clerical fascism etc (and some idiots on the left will fall for it and distort the debate with cultural anomalies). So what makes economic sense could be thwarted by those protecting the status quo.

I don’t think it’s beyond the imagination to see the Arab nations forming a unified economic block if one can imagine no interference from imperialist nations. After all Europe has centuries of bitter conflict and built up xenophobia but it has managed to develop the EU, even though there is still much protest the project goes on regardless.

I think the medium term (20 to 30 years) could be marked by struggles and battles around the formation or otherwise of these ‘super blocks’.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the emergence of &#8216;super blocks&#8217; coming out of economic imperatives brought about by globalised capitalism. The power of the US, China, and the EU will compel other nations to look to this model of organisation as the most advanced, successful model. So I would expect to see attempts made at developing these blocks in the Middle East, Latin America, Africa &#8211; we are already seeing tentative moves in Latin America and Africa and in the Middle East it has been tried before and firmly put back in its place. Though there have been interesting developments in the Arab league in the last decade (the observer nations etc), so the potential exists. The point is that the imperialist powers will do all they can to prevent it under the pretext of fighting clerical fascism etc (and some idiots on the left will fall for it and distort the debate with cultural anomalies). So what makes economic sense could be thwarted by those protecting the status quo.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s beyond the imagination to see the Arab nations forming a unified economic block if one can imagine no interference from imperialist nations. After all Europe has centuries of bitter conflict and built up xenophobia but it has managed to develop the EU, even though there is still much protest the project goes on regardless.</p>
<p>I think the medium term (20 to 30 years) could be marked by struggles and battles around the formation or otherwise of these ‘super blocks’.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue R</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27633</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27633</guid>
		<description>Come on Former Neo-Liberal, outline your political programme for the Middle East.   You must have one, you sound so sussed on other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on Former Neo-Liberal, outline your political programme for the Middle East.   You must have one, you sound so sussed on other things.</p>
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		<title>By: Former neo liberal</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27631</link>
		<dc:creator>Former neo liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27631</guid>
		<description>&quot;and that for its part it endeavours rather to liberate the conscience from the witchery of religion.&quot;

But how is this to be achieved, by screaming at someone, there is no God you idiot or by changing the material and social relations of society. I think for Marx it was the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;and that for its part it endeavours rather to liberate the conscience from the witchery of religion.&#8221;</p>
<p>But how is this to be achieved, by screaming at someone, there is no God you idiot or by changing the material and social relations of society. I think for Marx it was the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27622</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27622</guid>
		<description>Have been waiting to use this one but fuck it -- will use it now....


&quot;&quot;Freedom of conscience&quot;! If one desired, at this time of the Kulturkampf to remind liberalism of its old catchwords, it surely could have been done only in the following form: Everyone should be able to attend his religious as well as his bodily needs without the police sticking their noses in. But the Workers&#039; party ought, at any rate in this connection, to have expressed its awareness of the fact that bourgeois &quot;freedom of conscience&quot; is nothing but the toleration of all possible kinds of religious freedom of conscience, and that for its part it endeavours rather to liberate the conscience from the witchery of religion. But one chooses not to transgress the &quot;bourgeois&quot; level.

&lt;a href=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SOURCE: Marx, Karl. &quot;Critique of the Gotha Programme&quot; (1875), Part IV. Published abridged in Die Neue Zeit, Bd. 1, No. 18, 1890-91.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have been waiting to use this one but fuck it &#8212; will use it now&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;Freedom of conscience&#8221;! If one desired, at this time of the Kulturkampf to remind liberalism of its old catchwords, it surely could have been done only in the following form: Everyone should be able to attend his religious as well as his bodily needs without the police sticking their noses in. But the Workers&#8217; party ought, at any rate in this connection, to have expressed its awareness of the fact that bourgeois &#8220;freedom of conscience&#8221; is nothing but the toleration of all possible kinds of religious freedom of conscience, and that for its part it endeavours rather to liberate the conscience from the witchery of religion. But one chooses not to transgress the &#8220;bourgeois&#8221; level.</p>
<p><a href="" rel="nofollow">SOURCE: Marx, Karl. &#8220;Critique of the Gotha Programme&#8221; (1875), Part IV. Published abridged in Die Neue Zeit, Bd. 1, No. 18, 1890-91.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27621</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27621</guid>
		<description>in otherbwerDs Gameboy is a disgrace. an utter fool and disgusting shithead.

&quot;listening&quot; to him means you are also a thick cunt (take note Osler).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in otherbwerDs Gameboy is a disgrace. an utter fool and disgusting shithead.</p>
<p>&#8220;listening&#8221; to him means you are also a thick cunt (take note Osler).</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2010/03/jos-massacres-the-case-for-secularism/comment-page-2/#comment-27620</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/?p=1614#comment-27620</guid>
		<description>Atheism vs. Skepticism in Antiquity:

The Sceptics reduced the theoretical relation of people to things to appearance, and in practice they left everything as of old, being guided by this appearance just as much as others are guided by actuality; they merely gave it another name. Epicurus, on the other hand, was the true radical Enlightener of antiquity; he openly attacked the ancient religion, and it was from him, too, that the atheism of the Romans, insofar as it existed, was derived. For this reason, too, Lucretius praised Epicurus as the hero who was the first to overthrow the gods and trample religion underfoot; for this reason among all church fathers, from Plutarch to Luther, Epicurus has always had the reputation of being the atheist philosopher par excellence, and was called a swine; for which reason, too, Clement of Alexandria says that when Paul takes up arms against philosophy he has in mind Epicurean philosophy alone. (Stromatum, Book I [chap. XI], p. 295, Cologne edition, 1688.) Hence we see how “cunning, perfidious” and “clever” was the attitude of this open atheist to the world in directly attacking its religion, while the Stoics adapted the ancient religion in their own speculative fashion, and the Sceptics used their concept of “appearance” as the excuse for being able to accompany all their judgments with a reservatio mentalis.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch03a.htm#c.1.3
&lt;a href=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SOURCE: Marx, Karl; Engels, Friedrich. The German Ideology (1845-6), Vol. I, Chapter III: Saint Max, section 1.3: The Ancients. &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atheism vs. Skepticism in Antiquity:</p>
<p>The Sceptics reduced the theoretical relation of people to things to appearance, and in practice they left everything as of old, being guided by this appearance just as much as others are guided by actuality; they merely gave it another name. Epicurus, on the other hand, was the true radical Enlightener of antiquity; he openly attacked the ancient religion, and it was from him, too, that the atheism of the Romans, insofar as it existed, was derived. For this reason, too, Lucretius praised Epicurus as the hero who was the first to overthrow the gods and trample religion underfoot; for this reason among all church fathers, from Plutarch to Luther, Epicurus has always had the reputation of being the atheist philosopher par excellence, and was called a swine; for which reason, too, Clement of Alexandria says that when Paul takes up arms against philosophy he has in mind Epicurean philosophy alone. (Stromatum, Book I [chap. XI], p. 295, Cologne edition, 1688.) Hence we see how “cunning, perfidious” and “clever” was the attitude of this open atheist to the world in directly attacking its religion, while the Stoics adapted the ancient religion in their own speculative fashion, and the Sceptics used their concept of “appearance” as the excuse for being able to accompany all their judgments with a reservatio mentalis.<br />
<a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch03a.htm#c.1.3" rel="nofollow">http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch03a.htm#c.1.3</a><br />
<a href="" rel="nofollow">SOURCE: Marx, Karl; Engels, Friedrich. The German Ideology (1845-6), Vol. I, Chapter III: Saint Max, section 1.3: The Ancients. </a></p>
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