A NUMBER of blogs today carry reports of the Respect conference in Birmingham on Saturday, which seems to mark what even previously unquestioningly loyal supporters of that organisation are describing as a shift to the right.
In one apparently bad-tempered debate, those calling for an orientation to the ‘son of No2EU’ general election challenge were soundly defeated by the majority perspective of closer ties to leftwing Greens.
The latter category includes Peter Tatchell, who won the endorsement of Respect MP George Galloway. It will be interesting to see how those in Respect who consider Britain’s best known gay activist to be an irredeemable Islamophobe will square that circle.
Meanwhile, Galloway is said to have repeatedly slammed ‘Trots’ and ‘Communists’. This seems a bit rich, given that the Socialist Workers’ Party was the main mover behind the foundation of Respect, that the British section of the Fourth International is still ostensibly a component of the grouping, and that great efforts were initially made to get the Communist Party of Britain on board.
Worryingly, former SWPers state that they will seek to ‘pulverise’ the oppositionists, and openly hint that leading leftists on the Respect national committee should reconsider their membership of Respect and ‘move on’. We can all guess where that one is going.
It is not quite clear whether another edition of ‘The Respect Paper’, a project largely the work of the residual Trotskyists, will ever see the printing presses.
Apparently, the outlook now is that Respect will secure three MPs within a matter of months, at which point socialist groups will form an orderly queue to seek some kind of tie-up.
I am told by Brummies that Salma Yaqoob has some chance of securing a Birmingham seat, although cannot be considered a shoo-in; none but the self-deluded can honestly believe that either Galloway or Abjol Miah are in the running in East London. But this is for the electorate to decide.
Yet however one evaluates the politics of these three candidates, not one can meaningfully be described as a socialist. I have argued from the start that Respect has never been a viable vehicle for a new party to the left of Labour; that contention is probably about to see its decisive test, and I suspect that some comrades I love dearly will soon be looking pretty bloody stupid.
Elsewhere, the SWP is still committed on paper to some form of electoral intervention. But it is currently in the midst of a faction fight, with further expulsions reported in the northeast. Things may or may not get nasty, but it is doubtful whether it will be in any shape to mount more than token efforts in this direction.
There will be some sort of slate around the Socialist Party, backed by some leftwing trade unionists in a personal capacity, but not now the CPB. Its prospects must accordingly be limited.Workers of the world, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your deposits.
I actually spent last Saturday at the annual conference of the Labour Representation Committee, which brings together what is left of the Labour left. While I am not making out that it is on the verge of some kind of breakthrough, it at least offers a cohesive game plan.
The reality is that the only socialists in the next parliament will be those elected on a Labour Party ticket. Anybody that really wants to see a continued hard left presence at Westminster should direct their efforts to the relevant constituencies. Anything else is either at best tokenistic, and at worst simply sterile.
Posted at 17:02, 16 November 2009
Comments (70)
"I am told by Brummies that Salma Yaqoob has some chance of securing a Birmingham seat, although cannot be considered a shoo-in . . . "
You have to wonder if Respect has much of future after the coming General Election. Even if it were to get one or two of its high profile candidates elected to Parliament.
Maybe Salma Yaqoob will end up being Britain's first Green Party member of Parliament?
Stranger things have happened,
Whatever you think of Respect, it was damaged by the split with the SWP and hasn't got much of a future.
As for NO2EU, or son of, I think that will be found to be a political dead-end, eventually.
It would be far better if the British Left realised that Europe is not going to go away and made a serious effort for an MEP, something like "United Left" (Socialist Alliance MK 3) or similar.
The Greens have been sucessful in using Europe to gain publicity for their party and policies, the non-Green Left could do a lot worse than copy that approach, cos if they don't the Far Right will, and there'll be more BNP MEPs :(
"I actually spent last Saturday at the annual conference of the Labour Representation Committee, which brings together what is left of the Labour left. While I am not making out that it is on the verge of some kind of breakthrough, it at least offers a cohesive game plan"
Dave. I'm genuinely curious what that 'cohesive game plan' might be.
The Campaign Group of MPs. already declining in successive parliaments is set to become still smaller after the next General Election.
Nobody but a hard left fantasists, something I would never accuse you of, imagines John McDonnell or similar will be a serious contender in any post General Election leadership election, in fact its a racing certainty he won;t even be on the ballot paper.
The one strategy the LRC might have chosen, to secure a base in local govt via winning council candidatures in near moribund local labour parties, it seems to have studiously avoided.
So what's the cohesive game plan? By the way, before you jump down my throat this isn't mindless cheer-leading for Respect in comparison either. If Salma Yaqoob gets elected an MP it would be a victory, likewise Caroline Lucas, Peter Tatchell, George Galloway, Jon Cruddas and John McDonnell. I'd happily vote for any of that lot but I don't proffer that as a cohesive game plan either.
Mark P
"Respect: dead end for the serious left"
Nothing surprising there.
Tell me why a serious leftist should join the Labour Party. Not where there is a little puddle of leftism, but join the Labour Party where they are an inactive shell.
Money and time down the drain.
If any of the following statements are not correct, then please let me know your thoughts and reason:
Respect are not standing a socialist candidate in a target constituency.
The Greens are not standing a socialist candidate in a target constituency.
None of the explicitly socialist parties will get a candidate elected.
Labour are standing less socialist candidates than ever before.
Talk about a crisis! Why should a socialist join this Labour party? Why should a socialist join any of the alternatives? I once thought there were too many socialist parties, but really there are none.
not one can meaningfully be described as a socialist. I have argued from the start that Respect has never been a viable vehicle for a new party to the left of Labour
There's an awful lot of space to the left of Labour. Good luck to the LRC, but their hopes for left representation in the LP rest on new blood coming in - and what chance would anyone as Left as Salma or George have of getting adopted as a Labour PPC?
‘not one can meaningfully be described as a socialist.’
Fine, Respect is not your cup of tea, but that is simply a ludicrous Spart-like comment, and bizarrely from a member of the Labour party, no less.
There is not a single elected Labour representative in Birmingham to the left of Salma Yaqoob. Not one, and not by a very long shot.
Dave - two minor corrections.
The Respect paper will continue to appear and Socialist Resistance will continue dedicating the same level of resources to it as before. That's a complete non discussion.
If Salma Yaqoob's introductory speech on Saturday had been delivered by a Labour prospective candidate she or he would be very quickly deselected by Labour HQ.
Saturday's conference was not without its problems and I didn't conceal them but Respect is still the closest thing the left in Britain has to a well rooted left of Labour alternative.
I've said my views on this issue on the threads on Socialist Unity but I agree with a fair bit of the post - clearly the right are running Respect - although I see no more reason to support any Labour MPs at the election then say some LD (or even Tory) candidates, who will sometimes be more 'progressive' than their Labour opponents. It would be beyond the pale to support any of these major parties.
I don't, however, agree that Respect has no socialists. I certainly think Galloway is a Left, a very flawed one indeed, but I'd certainly give him a critical vote. I have written about Miah on Socialist Unity and drew attention to his non-socialist activities but there are good things about him - support for strikers, against cuts, for council house building and more that would make me want to consider whether he is worth a critical vote. I also wrote there about Yaqoob and how little of a record she has - what would she do if elected? I also pointed out the complete lack of substance, in the claims in support of her, by people like Francis, of those who thought only a mad sectarian would oppose her.
I think Respect is a strange mixture of a Left and centre party with a big range of views inside. I don't disagree with his comment on Yaqoob and Birmingham cllrs and MPs. But what does it tell you? Nothing. Someone on the 'X Factor' must, by definition, be more musically creative than the others but that doesn't mean that any of them would score more than 5% on a scale of musical creativity.
And I don’t think it impossible that Galloway will be elected. I supported Respect in two neighbouring Newham seats to where he will fight, at the last general election, and where they got an average of 25% (as opposed to the Labour winners’ 50%) and incidentally where the candidates where a Left (Lindsey German) and - the most relevant description - a Muslim (as opposed to an Islamist) of the 'community leader (sic) type.
I would have thought Galloway would have a chance and so would whoever fights his former seat for him (Miah?). I don't know the numbers in Brum but 3 Respect MPs doesn't look impossible. Barking is being mentioned by some as a BNP sure bet for Griffin; at the last general election the winning Labour candidate, Hodge, also got 50% of the vote but the BNP only got 17%.
I think it is a blow that the resolution committing Respect to consider aligning with the ‘no-name’ coalition (a very apt name) was lost. I think many, or the majority, in Respect can remain or develop Left - I frankly think that for many on the white Left the idea of a ‘Left Muslim’, as opposed to say a radical Left Methodist or a Communist with a Jewish background is something more than their small brains can comprehend, but that vote does make it look as though Respect is heading where they say it already is – a wet Left centre grouping whose support primarily derives from Muslims.
It is urgent that an electoral lash-up (at the very least) involving the SP, Crowe, CPB and everyone else – AWL, WP etc - is launched (have the SWP not been invited or refused – either is criminal, especially as they are the biggest Left group) and the attitude of Respect to whatever does arise shows what sort of the party the latter is. No Name or the Greens? A good test. But it doesn’t look promising.
Someone above is seemingly concerned why a serious leftist (whatever that is) should join the Labour Party. I thought you just had to believe in helping the elderly, weak and poor in our society. Serious lefties in my experience sit in smoke filled rooms and pubs producing hee haw and wind.
George Galloway being a fellow Scot is a decent man. But a man for all seasons. He has the gift of the gab and can talk the hind legs of a donkey. A very convincing man indeed. Any Catholic Socialist Scot that can get Muslim fundamentalists that hate Christians and Infidels to vote for him is indeed a person with nality. You have to Respect Gorgeous George. He should never have been kicked out of the Labour Party.
Ger
Salma may well be to the left of every elected Labour representative in Birmingham. Fine, I'll take your word for it. Still wouldn't make her a socialist, though. Radical liberal, maybe. But that's different.
Lobby (and others)
I do not argue that socialists should join the Labour Party. I do not even argue that socialists should (necessarily) join the Labour Representation Committee. They should, however, work to secure the election of LRC candidates.
Francis, How far to the left have you got to go to get to the left of Salma Yaqoob? And what good will it do for the working class?
Be careful. Apparently it's ultra-left to deny the socialism of Salma Yacoob, despite Salma doing so herself. Behold the wrath of 'Ger'.
"Peter Tatchell, who won the endorsement of Respect MP George Galloway. It will be interesting to see how those in Respect who consider Britain’s best known gay activist to be an irredeemable Islamophobe will square that circle".
Obviously you are not referring to myself, as I am in the Green Party and not Respect. But you still display your ignorance - (willful or otherwise), about the nature of the criticism of Peter Tatchell by those on the left such as myself.
I do not think Peter Tachell is an "Islamophobe' and its not something I have said. I do think, however, that he displays the limits of a militant bourgoise secularism, a politica; theory that is inferior to the Marxist critique of religion. The latter is more aware of the class struggles that lies behind some religious struggles.
As I have said many times before, Peter Tatchell is not an Islamophobe and George Galloway is not a homophobe.
Yet Galloway gets this accusation of homophobia slung against him, even though he has a fairly good record, voting against S28, etc. Galloway has made mistaken alliances, with reactionary regimes and currents that use homophobia. But he is not a homophobe.
Likewise, Tatchell has found himself in Islamophobic company and aligned with reactionaries who use Islamophobia. But Tarchell is not an Islamophobe. Tatchell is a self-proclaimed anti-racist and anti-imperialist. He has a better record than many of the pro-war so called 'left-wingers' and Harry's Place shit-stirrers who creep around these commentary boxes.
Now, not wanting to derail an interesting debate about Respect, heres me two pennies worth. I always though Respect without the SWP would move to the right. (Indeed, thats why the SWP's post split criticism of Galloways colleagues and Respect as 'right wing ' was so funny! Surely that was the whole point of Respect - an electoral 'united front' with reformist socialists to their right!) But without the SWP or without a mass base in an active movement, Respect would always shrink and move further to the right. But that does not mean that it did not have important local bases - East London and Birmingham - where they could retain / gain MP's. These wont be anymore leftwing than remaining labour left MP's, maybe even less left-wing. But they are still an important part of the mix.
The rejection of the SPEW/RMT 'son of no2eu' represents two things, two bad signs: 1st, how small the RMT/SPEW based alliance will be (unfortuately), and 2) the fact that Gallloway and Yaqoob view this small alliance, as left wing baggage, an encumbrance, that might restrict more opportunist room for manouvre. Nevertheless, both Galloway and Yaqoob have their strong points, and remain worthy of support.
Generally, though, I think the socialist movement has blown its chance of building a left-of-labour electorally successful force. That was our ambition, to make something out of this 12 years of new labour govt and its betrayals of its social base. We have failed. Mainly because of objective factors - principally the lack of a major and widespread wave of Trades union and working class resistance and strikes. This would be the only solid base for a credible new left-of-labour party to be founded. Labour itself was formed after waves of strikes and the Russian revolution. All we had was a brief anti-war upsurge, a few strikes and workers campaigns, and a few thousand kids staging anti-capitalist spectacles. Not the objective basis for a nationwide working class new left party.
And there were subjective factors for this failure - principally the inherited sectarian culture of the British far left, hardened by decades of working class defeat and isolation. And our inability of holding onto our celebrity left-firebrands with big ego's without getting our fingers burned...
I'll stay in the Greens for the time being. My hope is that some of us can help develop a new working class and socialist politics to address capitals simultaneous ecological and economic crisis. But I doubt if this will be the main trajectory of the Green Party. On the other hand the labour party and its left does not look very hopeful either. Will there be a labour left revival if labour looses office? This is the question on lots of peoples lips. And a related q: What will the unions do?
So it seems the left is more fragmented now. And we socialists are all enclosed in different fragments. Lets keep working in our respective trenches - but also keep listening and talking to each other, reaching out for unity when the occasion demands.
I was also at the LRC conference Saturday.
If the Royal Mail dispute is where it's at, then the LRC, being the conference with CWU caucus meeting, is the place to be.
Dave, are you going to report on the conference you went to?
Dave,
Apparently being an anti-imperialist, anti-racist and a searing critic of capitalist free market fundamentalism does not qualify in your book as being a ‘socialist’. Nor, in addition, being a supporter of the Venezuelan and Cuba solidarity campaigns and advocate of those societies. And apparently being the leader of a party which describes its aims as standing ‘for peace, publicly owned services and a decent future for all’ means nothing. Ditto Respect's commitment to the struggle for ‘a world in which the democratic demands of the people are carried out; a world based on need not profit; a world where solidarity rather than self-interest is the spirit of the age’.
So, if all that counts for nothing, what is it that makes one a ‘socialist’?
Just got in from our meetings of Lewisham People Before Profit. Active members of many of the local campaigns, trade unions, left groups and independents were present -including the leader of the borough leaseholders. We are close to registering with the Election Commission as a local political party and intend standing candidates in both our Mayorial, parl. and council seats. The coming together of community groups, trade unionists and socialists is increasingly the picture in many cities and towns. This is going to be an important factor in the way a new left party will come into being, not built from the top.
barry, you wrote:
"Likewise, Tatchell has found himself in Islamophobic company and aligned with reactionaries who use Islamophobia. But Tarchell is not an Islamophobe"
Was that necessary?
Bringing up this topic again certainly isn't going to lead to a new pluralism amongst the Left all it does it stir up strife.
But Barry, let us be clear your previous party, the SWP, doesn't have such a clear-cut record either, does it?
Do I need to remind you of the reactionaries that the SWP has associated with?
As there is no known proven condition as Islamaphobia would all pretend Socialists please stop using the word. Go out and get a job, meet people get a life. Avoid the SWP, Agents of the State, bloody splitters!
Nick Long. Another new Party built from the bottom and not the Top. Then to be run by the Top.
What will the abbreviation be, SSP, SWP, BNP, ENP, WRP! I am sure the British establishment will lose sleep.
All anyone on the left had to do was to read George Galloway's autobiography, where he describes RESPECT as "the first ever Postmodern political party."
You're final paragraph makes no sense, Dave, in the context of Wales. The country has one independent MP and any number of councillors. These independents are really old Labour men who can be expected to put together a Welsh Labour Party some time after the election.
Sorry, that should be "your" and not "you're"
One problem with trying to attain left unity is the that some on the left cannot subordinate their opinions to the will of the majority. So for example while the vast majority on the left oppose the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan the professional pro imperialists throw a sectarian spanner in the works by deriding the majority as pro Taliban etc and refusing to accept the democratic will. (How ironic)!
So all you are left with is to vote for the party that satifies your narrow immediate self interest.
Equally, sectarians shouting "Pro-imperialist" at those that think Afghans shouldn't be forced to live under Taliban rule doesn't help matters.
The sooner that the ultralefts get out of their shells, re-think what Internationalism means and leave behind the dog-earred anti-European rhetoric of the 1970s, the better.
Liam; "Respect is still the closest thing the left in Britain has to a well rooted left of Labour alternative".
Oh really ?
Care to tell us where Respect exists outside of England Liam ?
Or has living in the imperial capital infected you with that common ailment of English chauvinism in which Britain = England and vice versa ?
Shouldn't Ger be saving his yelps for the coming purge of Respect?
Yaqoob's boot-boy is one side of Birmingham respect.
It would be interesting, and I have visited the target constituency not so long ago, to hear the political opinions of others from her local base. Not to mention the views on say, gay rights and sexual freedom, of the 'community leaders' and 'heads of household' everyone admits form her core support.
Not exactly socialist I would suspect.
But then I am a agent of French secularist imperialism. Not an agent for British multicultural communalism.
"re-think what Internationalism means"
For the vast majority on the left it will never mean supporting the mass slaughter and systematic torture of people in occupied territories and expanding our ruling classes dominance over more of the globe until some unspecified level of 'civilisation' has been reached. If you can't accept that point why not move over to the right as they share your goals. Once you perceive that those goals are achieved move back over to the left.
This will then allow for the possibility of much needed left unity.
I am also curious about the LRC's cohesive game plan
That seems to be the one thing it most clearly has not got.
I woul be interested in knowing from Dave, or anyone, what the LRCs strategy is, other than huddling together and hoping for better times.
Do I really need to spell it out again? OK, here goes:
Canvass for MacDonnell, Corbyn and a few others. This is the only way - I repeat, THE ONLY WAY - that we will have two or three labour movement-oriented socialists in parliament as a starting point for whatever comes next.
Lucas and/or Yaqoob may, or may not be, desirable optional extras. That's a judgement call. But they are not labour movement-oriented socialists.
Even you should be able to get your head round that, comrade N.
Not to anticipate too much of the report I am in process writing for the Weekly Worker but ...
1. The idea that Respect is "moving to the right" is nonsense. Galloway's politics are, as they always have been, a very mixed bag, and Respect is, as it has been from the outset, a populist formation. But there was no sign at the conference that they have moved rightwards relative to where they were a year ago: merely, there were sharp differences about fash-bash and 'Son of No2EU' which Socialist Resistance comrades and Wrack-ites have chosen, like John Rees before them, to present as a move to the right. Salma Yaqoob and Abjol Miah sounded to me significantly more 'left' at this year's conference than at the last, with serious things to say about the role of state racism in promoting the growth of the BNP and the appearance of EDL and about how to fight to undercut the material roots of mass racism - frankly, to the left of the standard fash-bash line which suggests that there is some sort of consensus against the BNP, as Jack Straw put it, "from UKIP to the SWP".
2. "Not socialist" of Galloway is an odd use of "socialist" - which, remember, includes feudal socialists and bourgeois socialists (Communist Manifesto) as well as, in the 20th century, National Socialists.
3. Like other comrades I am curious to hear more about the LRC's "cohesive game plan". I agree that there are a few Labour MPs the 'outside left' should work for next May, but I don't think this amounts to a "cohesive game plan".
Meanwhere there are the details of another SWP split below. It seems that there’s a bit of a generalised crisis going on.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94807
well dave
Quite apart from the entirely left of labour candidates standing for Plaid and Peoples' vocie that you seem to overlook, even if you do get Corbyn and McDonnell elected, so what?
Don't get me worng, i am all in favour of them being in parliament.
But that is not actually a strategy for socialist advacne is it? It is a holding operation, around figures who are relatively marginal in the Labour party.
Mike " am curious to hear more about the LRC's "cohesive game plan". I agree that there are a few Labour MPs the 'outside left' should work for next May, but I don't think this amounts to a "cohesive game plan"."
I think we have had the "comprehensive game plan" from dave now.
Back a couple of left MPs, and errrr, that is it.
I think dave is using the word "comprehensive" is a way I had not previoulsy encountered.
Yaqoob is not a ‘labour movement-oriented socialists’.
Well, this is progress. Apparently Salma has now qualified as a socialist, just not a ‘labour movement orientated’ one. Really? Tell it to the UNITE shop stewards and members who cheered her to the rafters when she attended their recent protest in support of the 54 sacked workers from 2 Sisters. Or the council workers she backed in the single status dispute, and whom she will be championing again as they face 30% jobs cuts. Dave is confusing the Labour Party and the labour movement as being one and the same. They’re not.
As for Andrew Coates…
‘It would be interesting…to hear the political opinions of others from her local base.’
In the main the majority are ex-Labour party members and voters with corresponding opinions, essentially left-wing social democractic given backbone by strong anti-imperialism, although most would never use such language to describe themselves. Some, not all, have a background of engagement in the anti-war movement. Some, not all, have very strong opinions on Palestine and are engaged in Palestinian solidarity work. All, bar none, are not interested in being in a Muslim only party but are pound to be in a party which has no truck with anti-Muslim racism.
‘Not to mention the views on say, gay rights and sexual freedom’
You are well aware of her stance on this issue, because I directly addressed it when you raised it on Andy’s site, but you prefer to try smear her with homophobic insinuations. So, read again:
‘It is ironic that while some try smear Respect for a supposed pandering to homophobia, in our heartlands we are attacked for the very opposite reason. In the recent Sparkbrook election a leaflet was distributed with the headline “RESPECT - Acts to ensure Sexual Equality”. It was produced by a Labour supporter and its purpose was to touch homophobic buttons among the electorate by attacking Respect’s support for the right of unmarried heterosexual and homosexual couples to adopt children, and our support to reduce the age of homosexual consent to 16.
Any discussion about tackling homophobia within the Muslim community must start from an appreciation of the extent to which a Quranic reading that forbids same-sex relationships is very much the predominant one. Within that context many people struggle with an articulation of a basic equality position because they are unconfident about squaring it with their faith.
Salma counteracts such views something like this. Just as Muslim women like herself expect non-Muslims to respect her right to make personal choices they may disapprove of, like the wearing of hijab or niqab, Muslims must reciprocate when it comes to the choices of others that they may personally disapprove of. Not only should Muslims support LBGT rights, it is hypocritical of them not to do so.'
As for ‘the 'community leaders' and 'heads of household' everyone admits form her core support’
This is simply a blatant lie. I challenge you to substantiate it. The truth is the opposite to what you say. The single biggest corruption of the democratic process in Muslim communities in inner city Birmingham is via the system of postal voting on demand. Labour are the biggest beneficiaries and Respect the biggest losers under this system. Our support in the Muslim community is strongest among those sections most disenfranchised by postal voting - women and young people. And no politician has been more forceful in exposing and denouncing this than Salma:
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/2008/05/20/postal-ballot-means-asian-women-miss-out-on-vote-says-salma-yaqoob-65233-20934021/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/may/02/thesecrettosuccess
In future best not to dress up prejudice and lies about Salma as informed political opinion. You will only get pulled up on it.
Oh Ger, not the closest socialist argument again. If Salma doesn't call herself a socialist, why do you think she needs you to do it on every left-wing blog? She doesn't. There must be some other cause you can be the attack dog for. She's clearly a progressively minded liberal, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not socialism. Barry's summary I broadly agree with, but I'm not about to join the Greens, simply because they're not socialists either, although some of them clearly are. I'll have to vote Green, if they stand here, as my MP is a right-wing pro-war New Labourite.
I assume I'm not alone in just waiting and hoping when the Tories are in government a socialist party (whether the Labour party or another) will emerge.
Dave: "The reality is that the only socialists in the next parliament will be those elected on a Labour Party ticket."
So Dave, what about Plaid Cymru? Are you arguing that they cannot win any seats at the next election, or that they are not a left party?
What about Dai in Blaenau Gwent standing for Peoples Voice?
AJT, I presume you mean ‘Closet’. What I have described is as public as it gets. As for 'attack-dog'; I think I have been political and factual, actually. Such a sensitive bunch once challenged, eh?
Ger,
Does Salma Yaqoob call herself a socialist?
Yes, sorry for the typo: 'closet socialist' is what I think you're claiming on Salma's behalf.
I'm not at all sensitive, and I'm not sure what bunch I belong to. I'm not a member of any socialist party; in fact, that is my problem. I was Labour once, then Respect. I left each after despairing of their lack of socialist politics. I couldn't see the point in the disproportionate time and effort we spent on supposed Muslim community leaders. My interest is in poor and working class people of all creeds, with a special interest in socialised healthcare.
As for 'attack-dog', you can't deny macho attacks on Respect's socialist critics, surely?
"Canvass for MacDonnell, Corbyn and a few others"
Dave. c'mon. You are a sophisticated political thinker and writer. This surely cannot be what you describe as the Labour Hard Left's 'cohesive game plan.' Please tell me that's not true, there must surely be some strategic thinking somewhere on the Labour Hard Left, mustn't there?
McDonnell, Corbyn get elected. I can't think of anyone likewise working on George Galloway and Salma Yaqoob's election campaigns who wouldn't celebrate both of those victories, not a single person, so why the extraordinary sectarianism in return? It doesn't suit you.
But the deeper malaise is this near total absence of strategy. The Campaign Group will be appreciably smaller after the next election, McDonnell won;t get on the ballot paper in a leadership election, theres little or no base being built in local government. Yes the Labour Hard Left exerts some kind of influence in the Labour Party but how much and way are the prospects of that improving.
Meanwhile a handful fewer Blair-Brown loyalists replaced by MPs who represent a politics infinitely more radical than those they replace, what precisely is the problem with that ? Unless you really are joining that brain-dead school of thought, my party right or wrong. The antithesis of everything your very fine blog stands for.
Mark P
Andy -
You've sent me scurrying to Collins English Dictionary. It may be that 'coherent' (logical; consistent and orderly) would have been a better word than 'cohesive' (characterised by or causing cohesion).
Ger -
But, as others have pointed out, none of what you say about SY makes here a *socialist*.
Mark P -
This is not about 'my party right or wrong'. New Labour is *wrong* about almost everything. But I repeat; the only socialists in parliament in six months time will be in the Campaign Group. Get used to it.
AJT. Lots of pretend socialists and hingers oan wait about when the Tories are in power for something that is not going to happen. Meanwhile the Labour Party get on with helping their constituents to the best of their ability. The windbags that claim to be socialists should join the Labour Party. Get into power and do something for the people you claim to represent. Shouting from the sidelines gets you nowhere. If it was not for doers we would not have a health service.
Join Labour forget about Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin! They had their time. The penny I hope will drop with the Lefties some day that the British people will endure rather than have dictatorship.
Does Salma Yaqoob call herself a socialist? No she says she's not a socialist. Apparently pointing out this simple fact is a problem.
Why?
Let's be honest about it Ger Francis isn't a socialist either.
Don't know whether he denies it though.
We've already just had 12 years of a Tory government. Why would anyone want another five years more.
Sure bill, Salma’s not a socialist, neither am I’m and neither is George, according to Dave. (Still awaiting your definition, by the way. Either ‘socialist’ or ‘labour orientated’ socialist will do. And compliments on the title of the blog. Very aptly named.)
Just out of interest I googled "Salma Yaqoob" and "socialist" and found a Guardian article from June of this year entitled "The new left". It concludes:
"The challenge for the left is to renew itself and reassert some basic socialist critiques and solutions into mainstream political debate."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/09/labour-left-respect-europe
The only inference one can draw from Yaqoob's call for socialist critique and solution is that she agrees with them. If Yaqoob wants socialist solutions then she clearly identifies herself as a socialist. She's not a Marxist no, but Marxists do not have the monopoly on socialism.
I have no view on the matter either way, but only on the British Left would you see such clutching at straws.
Generally speaking, if political people believe in something strongly enough, they tend to say so.
What next? Reading of the tea leaves?
" the only socialists in parliament in six months time will be in the Campaign Group. Get used to it.' Dave O
Dave. For someone who has a well-deserved reputation for strategic thinking you really are digging yourself into a horrible hole here.
Yes John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and a much depleted Campaign Group are MPs any socialist should celebrate being re-elected. But this hardly adds up to the 'cohesive game plan' you have suggested, does it?
And the point you choose to entirely miss is that there is a handful of candidates , not standing against Labour MPs with the remotest connection to the left, who if elected on every meanngful vote would vote the same as Corbyn and McDonnell. So why your vituperative opposition? Is it simply because they aren't Labour candidates, this is the kind of mindless my party right or wrong politics you have always stood against so why surrender to it now?
If George Galloway was to be re-elected, Salma Yaqob and Caroline LUcas elected, it would strengthen the left in parliament not weaken it. I don;t particularly care what label any of them choose, what matters is their record and how they would vote in parliament . They would vote with McDonnell and Corbyn, the principal difference is that they don't want to be in the same party as new Labour, whats the problem with that?
I entirely share your well-founded contempt for the Far Left. The magnitude of the left alternative's failure since 1997 is that the BNP isthe principal challenger to Labour from outside the mainstream, not us. But that shouldn't cloud the fact that in three or four constituencies outside left candidates have a real chance of being elected. That is an achievement and deserves not keyboarded sneering which does yourself no credit.
Mark P
Totally agree with Mark P, the people mentioned are undoubtedley socialists. Shouting at them you are not socialists is wrong because there is an underlying assumption that socialists can never deviate from the correct path.
You would be better saying they are socialists and we recognise that fact but point out specific tactical/logical errors in their thinking.
But they would all be welcome in my left party anytime.
Nobody is shouting at them that they are not socialists, and I am not a Marxist.
In fact, I am quietly agreeing with Salma. She doesn't claim socialism: only Andy and Ger insist she is one with such passion, despite her not agreeing with them. I don't blame anyone for wishful thinking, but I can't let the closet socialist claim stand unchallenged.
Progressive liberals are not socialists. Socialism must surely include something about wanting to replace capitalism, even if only by graduual reform (social democracy). When did Salma ever claim to be an anti-capitalist? I presume these men want socialists to get their party elected. Good luck.
Someone called 'ghost of highgate' gave a good working description on 'Socialist Unity' of which parties socialists can support
"working class politics = politics based primarily in an understanding of the class antagonism under capitalism and seeking to promote the interests of the working classes within this system (including possibly the overthrow of the latter). A politics which sees class as the dominant and primary defining inter-personal relation under the present system."
So on the above -
The Greens can never be supported (despite them having some undoubted socialists - and right-wing establishment lackeys like Jenny Jones),
Labour could have been but now can't. I'd have no problem voting for say Jeremy Corbyn running as an independent socialist; but he's not, he's a Labour Party MP and no vote for Labour.
I find Respect to be in flux and individual candidates can meet that test. Galloway - yes; Miah - not sure, probably not; Yaqoob - no.
old Labour types (e.g. Barrow Peoples Party??) and various independent non-revolutionary socialists - yes
SSP & Solidarity - yes.
AJT. So you left because you disagreed about the war. You are now in the wilderness with not a thing to contribute. Your social concience will be of great help to the poorer in our society. Tough old game is politics AJT. It is your choice to spend time in smoke filled rooms chatting about the revolution that will never happen. Power is the game. Hoping the Tories get in is the biggest mistake the looney left have always made. The workers just get screwed a bit more.
I don't imagine any but the most wacky left-winger would hope the Tories get in. I was referring to accepting its inevitability, not wishing for it.
I spend no time in smoke filled rooms, and none chatting about the revolution. I'm no story, Jim.
It is true that Respect has been and never will be a right ‘vehicle’ for the revolutionary socialists. But how it is likely to see an Eskimo in desert that much it is likely to see revolutionary socialist in LRC.
Maybe something much different than Respect and completed different from LRC.
Of course Galloway regularly warns against any attempt to portray him as a liberal. Generally the Respect leaders seem relatively united in being left on imperialism, socially conservative and with a lack of engagement with working class organisation (except on a propaganda level, Respect does nothing as an organisation to organise workers).
It may be true that Respect is a vehicle for rightward moving ex-revolutionary socialists.
SPP - I don't see why Respect candidates should be judged individually and Greens not.
If you're going to compare the LRC to Respect, then there's no doubt that the LRC are an infinitely preferable organisation in pretty much every respect.
They are socialists, they have an orientation to the labour movement, they don't go around witch hunting their own members, they're not into lash ups with the Greens.
As for Ger Francis of course he can say he's not a socialist and I believe him - but its annoying the way he always wants to speak for others. Personally I think GG is a socialist, but of a Stalinist kind. I think he's proved that pretty consistently over the years and at least he's got some great credits, around STWC and Palestine to his name.
Skidmark,
Good point, but I think Respect is a unique kind of organisation. It probably does pass the test I say, and obviously individual candidates should have been supported, such as Lindsey German but I also think Galloway is a socialist in the same kind of way that Bill J does; but then some of the other Respect candidates have no Left, Labour movement or socialist orientation at all.
I think the Greens, as a body, have never passed that test, so can't be supported individually
Yeah, Galloway has been consistent, find a dictatorship and suck up to it (Saddam's old mate and now as a voice of PressTV, the Iranian government's PR channel).
Perhaps Galloway's fan club could remind us of George's comments about the recent fiddle election in Iran?
Did he back his paymaster or the Protesters?
Do you even remember?
His position regarding Iran in no way means he is not a socialist, anymore than your support of the imperialist conquests precludes you from being one.
He is what the professional pro imperialists have historically called professional anti imperialist.
"Did he [Galloway] back his paymaster or the Protesters?"
modernity - can you find a quote from him? Otherwise I'm going to call you a bullshitter even if I know damn well where Galloway stood on Iran.
SPP - I would have thought that it would be the Marxist method to judge the organisation rather than the individual pronoucements of the candidates. Unless you think that Respect has so little coherence and cohesiveness as an organisation that a different standard needs to be applied. But I don't see George and Abjol and Salma having had major disagreements with each other so I would have thought their politics are close to each other (to the extent that they have a consistent position other than on the desire to see themselves elected) even if their rhetoric and past records are a little different.
Of course Lindsey German had her support yanked during the mayoral election by the minority faction that now calls itself Respect.
This is a pity that some people demonstrate the memory of a political goldfish on these issues.
Galloways comments:
http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/georgegalloway/2009/06/lets-get-our-facts-straight.html
“Can we just look at the facts here, which sadly get in the way of a good story? We do not have one iota of evidence that the Iranian election was fiddled.
Until we do, we should respect the result.
As we should the rights of the Tehran protesters to demonstrate peacefully on the streets without being shot or beaten up by government militias or soldiers.”
Galloway’s first inclination is to back his paymasters in Iran, and of course he’s nowhere as crude or as inflexible as many of his excusers would appear to be, Galloway hedges his bets as many good politician would naturally do. And you can say many things about Galloway, but he is a skilful operator.
Having said that Galloway ultimately knows who pays the piper, and with a slight dissent fall in behind Ahmadinejad’s regime, as you would expect.
There are elements of this debate I don't understand now. How can anyone be a socialist of a Stalinist kind? I'm sure Stalinists regard Stalinism as the true socialism, but surely the rest (and majority) of socialists believe democracy to be a fundamental pillar of socialism. Economic planning and equality are fundamental to socialism, but without democracy, economic planning is nothing more than totalitarianism; in fact economic planning is fascist if it is planned to serve the interests of the state and corporations. I'm not a proper marxist or revolutionary any more; I'm mainly interested in socialism as in socialising things, starting with the NHS which is partially socialised already. Combine public ownership with planning and radical democratisation, et voila!
Whatever I think of Galloway he certainly is a good entertainer, and his groupies/fan club seem to want to forget his rather dodgy utterance on the protests in Iran.
I do hope they will enjoy this video, where Galloway is found complementing the Presidential election:
http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=2578e5e627cd93ab0938
Actually the CPB are now taking part in the son-of-NO2EU coalition, in addition to standing our own candidates and backing Labour candidates with a positive track record.
Dave
Thanks for voting for me in the LRC election.
I've set up a new blog to report back on LRC-related stuff'.
Here it is:
http://mileslrcblog.blogspot.com/
Cheers
Miles