Well there are still Reclaim the Night Marches, in fact I think there is one in London this weekend.

The F word is a very good starting point and has covered recent marches and a Feminism in London event a few weeks back.

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/

There is also an event each year organised by feminist Fightback, this year around the theme of anti capitalism.
FF tends to be mainly students, so younger women getting involved.

Women are often involved in campaigns, such as ones around reproductive rights and abortion.

Like the left there are differences. Issues of pornography and feminism still divide. There are different groupings , such as rad fems, socialist feminist etc.

There are lots of feminist blogs, many on rad fem lines. I have myself been sent to the 'naughty room ' in one !!

There are more links now with issues such as sexuality, queer politics (as there always was, but a bit more complex than the old 80s political lesbianism).

Some feminists work closely with transgender women, sadly others such as Greer and Bindel attack them.

There are women challenging the role of fundamentalism , such as WAF for example.

A I say there are many blogs, groups , campaigns and websites going.

Its not dead, its just the left seem to have little use of feminists or queer activists these days (did they ever really),

Lots of feminists just get on with their own campaigns around women who are at the rough end of capitalism, such as low paid cleaners, abortion rights for women, sex workers etc .

"when was the last time any town in Britain staged a ‘reclaim the night’ march?"

If you had done your research you may have notice this from the F Word

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2009/11/reclaim_the_nig_14

And here as well http://www.reclaimthenight.org/sister.html

Shame you don't mention feminists like Lynne Segal, Angela Davis, Sheila Rowbotham...and so on.

Carry on reading Dave, seems you need to!

Oh there was also a London conference on feminism a few weeks ago, Waf has a 20th anniversary event on the 28th.

Lots is happening .

It is not ideal and still too much navel gazing or bickering over sex workers etc, but don't buy the Daily Mail crap that its all binge drinking and flashing off tits raunch culture.

Osler, you should know better !

And yes, you are welcome to borrow my books anytime .

Hey Dave - How about reading some socialist feminism rather than wasting your precious reading time on Campbell, Dworkin et al?

Exactly Janine !

Or even a little look around the blogs and internet would give a picture of what is going round.

And Dave, you and feminism is a subject best avoided , especially if MarshaJane comes over here and recounts what you said on Saturday :-)

http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/education-in-feminism-for-dave-osler.html

Ahh, the little women and their little hobbies.

Bless!

This really is a reactionary post. Some of the examples listed are the equivalent to what the Daily Hate Mail would use as hackneyed stereotypes if they weren't so old-fashioned and compress a very wide range of feminist traditions. So all us 'communists' go round waving our little red books do we? You can make that move to a tabloid.

I always found the socialist feminist stuff produced by the SWP to be interesting and, in retrospect, that produced by Militant. I didn't think so at the time but the latter's concentration on the 'basics' - e,g, wages, childcare, domestic labour, contraception, domestic violence etc., and their ridiculing of types like the IMG and SO etc for being more interested in, frankly, a little like the stereotypes listed above, was correct.

I'm pleased socialist feminist activities continue but they have certainly to be near the point of extinction - like anarchism, left young groups and other things. It's a great shame.

Suggested reading here.

Women's Evolution (Pathfinder Press) by Evelyn Reed
for a socialist feminist perspective on human history and capitalist development.

Bea Campbell didn't just denounce vilence during the miners strike she denounced miners for being sexist. Clearly for people like her class struggle was something someone might have mentioned at a dinner party. Angela Davis is a great starting point for anyone who doesn't consider socialist feminism to be mutually exclusive. Forget Greer - she's the cabaret act for Guardian women.

There are still regular Reclaim the Night marches in Oxford.

Glad you didn't waste much time reading Bea Campbell either. Her justification for receiving an OBE after years of identifying as a republican was one of the most vomit-inducing pieces of rubbish I've ever read.

Available here incidently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/16/queens-honours-obe

Oh, forgat to mention that one good thing about now compared to back then - no more socialist men's groups. Jesus, a load of breast beating about how sexist and oppressive they were, then behaving like alley cats towards any female comrade with a pulse.

Socialism isn't immune to jumping on the latest revolutionary bandwagon only to abandon it when society 'gets bored'. You can't educate yourself in feminism unless you listen to women; I think similar things could be said of socialism.

A while back, I put together some thoughts on being a feminist: http://christhum.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/men-and-feminism/

You just couldn't let it lie, could you, Dave? ;-)

Ha ha, man spouts sexist drivel knowing fine well it'll wind up the women comrades, male comrades all laugh together and get another round in at the bar.
Doug spouts sexist crap without a hint of irony.
Fuxache youse are like a parody of yourselves.
My militant feminist partner is unable to comment because she is out at a meeting of what can only be described as a form of soviet which has fought and defeated a property developer and Edinburgh City Council.
http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/
Incidentally, those whose involvement in the class struggle consists of reading books would do well to read Bea Campbell's 'Goliath' which is an in-depth look at the sociology behind an issue often blogged on by Dave, the 'underclass'.

Unfortunately, it's a good thing for Labour. Why any party would want a hideous cow like Bea Campbell within their ranks is a mystery. Her disgraceful ripping apart of families in the satanic abuse debacle is monstrous. She's as dangerously daft as a bag of starved rottweilers ... she'll fit in very well with the Greens.

Like all our yesterday's, but it is pity that the feminist movement shrank/fell apart/died a slow death (pick your own way of expressing it).

I used to enjoy reading Spare Rib.

But I still remember what socialists (some socialists) used to say when the topic turned to sexism, something like "Don't worry darling, we'll sort it out after the revolution"

Which didn't seem to win people over at the time, and I doubt it would work much today either, given the paltry state of the British Left.

Campbell is quite the most dreadful writer. There's her stuff on the miners and nonsense on satanic abuse already noted. Her 'Iron Ladies' book on why women vote Tory quite failed to answer the question whilst coming out around the 87 election when the gender gap was closing fast anyway. And then there's here stuff on Diana, so bad it was beyond parody, whilst she called for Joan Smith's book to be pulped because it was unkind about the recently deceased Di.

when was the last time any town in Britain staged a ‘reclaim the night’ march?

The Bristol march recently featured a poster proclaiming that one in four women have been raped.

Those who are interested can peruse Laban's feminist reading list at this post.

However, in the Cleveland Child Abuse affair, Ms Campbell was the one few voices of sanity - and as i was there, i know

Why were my comments sexist crap Truman? BTW Much better vote for Tommy than your candidate wasn't it? I bet your blood pressure went through the roof - how many holes in the wall did you punch?

My encounters with radical feminism tend to predate my engagement with the Hackney squatter scene, but I'd say a bit of Kollontai, a bit of the SCUM manifesto
http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm
and a familiarity with the phrase "Men,huh,they're all the fecking same" should do the trick.Some attention to personal hygiene wouldn't go amiss either.

Eddie, "Ha ha, man spouts sexist drivel knowing fine well it'll wind up the women comrades, male comrades all laugh together and get another round in at the bar".

Absolutely spot-on comrade, can't add anything to that comment as it certainly highlights how I feel about this thread.

I read this blog often, but don't join in much, but I would like to point something out.

I totally understand what Eddie said and HarpyMarx agreed with, but I also feel that this thread is good.

Why? Well because as someone who is still finding my place in the political spectrum I find controversial posts the best. People tend to put very good points in the comments that cause me to think more about my own position. Further people tend to link to other articles, that i might not of otherwise found.

So even if Dave was completely in the wrong, he has still caused a debate that has educated me further, and caused me to refine my own position on the subject.

Just an observation.

Dave:
"What can have happened to all those deeply earnest young women, clad in black leggings and DMs, who once drunkenly argued that penetrative sex is inherently oppressive and that all men are rapists, sometimes only an hour or prior to an entirely voluntary temporary suspension of their political lesbianism? "

Sorry, is this from Viz? or the Sun?

stupid women eh? trying to organise against their opression, they should just lighten up a bit and not have such a chip on their shoulder? and all those lesbians need is a good shag. phwwwrr! they could rely on dave to give em one!

Genuine question, what, apart from Obnoxio's comment, constitutes sexist drivel in the comments below this piece?

Every comment by a man, you fool with only half the X chromosomes necessary for intelligent life.
(Possibly not a genuine answer).

Oh dear. Well some of us still wear DMs Dave, some us are still trying to take over empty houses, some us are organising in our communities,some us are still talking about the patriarchy not patriarchy theory - that always reminds me of O grade biology in a Catholic school where we had to talk about the "theory of evolution" where every other scientific theory was taken as fact.

As pointed out above there are "reclaim the night" marches all over the place, I'm helping organise one for next International Women's Day in Edinburgh just like I am involved in campaigning about women having their own say in whether they need an abortion or not.

I come from the radical feminism school of thought, I have become more radical the older I have got.

I don't agree with lots of other socialist feminists on some things, Stroppy, Janine and I would probably fall out on a whole rath of things - sex work and pornography being one of them however these are not the only things that hold back women's liberation both as a gender and with men as a class. Luckily we agree on loads of other things, there are more that unites us than seperates us.

Greer baffles me and I don't understand her to tell the truth however I have a lot of respect for women like Bea Campbell and Julie Bindel. Why Bea Campbell took an OBE was a bit leftfield for me but she has contributed a lot to feminism and social issues. She was one of the few people who would not back down around Cleveland and spoke openly about child sexual abuse. She's a hero to me.

Julie Bindel has been tenacious in her campaigning about men's violence towards women and I respect and admire her greatly. I see her as an ally and a good friend. I am with her 100% on targetting the buyers of sex. I disagree with her on some things but why should I not?

I don't get queer politics and identity. I know some people do but I don't.

For me, I have to challenge why do socialist men not talk more about men's violence towards women and why is there not more challenging of this? However the minute a muslim woman is abused in Iran or Afghanistan etc - it's all "Islamic fascism" and women's oppression but nothing is said about violence towards women in their own communities. Why does it matter what the religion of the abuser is? Surely it's about women's experience. What is the explanation of the systematic rape of women in war torn countries such as the Congo etc? Class oppression in itself does not really explain it, however having a historical matrialist explanation of patriarchy can help.

I think what Michael Kaufman has to say about men's violence towards women is one of the most poinant things I have ever read in regards to men's violence towards women. I am sorry but men's violece and abuse of women or the threat of it throughout the world holds women back, socially, sexually and economically - some women are super exploited through it, some are just marginally affected but it's always there.

Evelyn Reed's Evolution of Women is an interesting read however it's long and slightly turgid, however I think it needs to be read in context with so much more.

The most liberating of texts is Alexandra Kollantai's A Great Love and The Love of the Worker's Bees. Those collection of short stories taught me much more than a hundred other books - socialist, marxist, feminist etc.

I think Dave your contribution to "feminism and stuff" is a wind up but really there is nothing new in marxist bloke winds up feminist woman it's as you say circa 1981!!!

"I am with her 100% on targetting the buyers of sex."

Is that punitive justice or actually looking at the underlying causes. Because punitive measures rarely work. And how far do you take this. Should men who watch women's tennis be locked up? (or is that just me)

I think old Dave's been reading too much Private Eye. This sounds like the 'Street of Shame' featrue played sideways. Not 'new technology baffles pissed old hack' so much as 'new politics baffles pissed old Trot.'

For an alternative to neo-calvinist, state sponsored, new Labour/Cambpell pseudo feminism it's worth checking out the 'global womens strike,' amongst others.

A bit more engaging than the reflexive, sex worker bashing of 'wimmin reclaim the night'

Cat:

"Greer baffles me and I don't understand her to tell the truth however I have a lot of respect for women like Bea Campbell and Julie Bindel. Why Bea Campbell took an OBE was a bit leftfield for me but she has contributed a lot to feminism and social issues. She was one of the few people who would not back down around Cleveland and spoke openly about child sexual abuse. She's a hero to me."

I'm thrown by the positive attitude to Campbell here. Try googling 'campbell' 'shieldfield' 'ritual satanic abuse' in various permutations. Campbell to my mind does not come out at all well.

I will say no more than that I believe Campbell's unwillingness to 'back down around Cleveland' is not admirable. It is the mark of an egotist incapable of recognising her own disastrously wrong ideas.

“What can have happened to all those deeply earnest young women, clad in black leggings and DMs, who once drunkenly argued that penetrative sex is inherently oppressive and that all men are rapists, sometimes only an hour or prior to an entirely voluntary temporary suspension of their political lesbianism? “

So that’s how Dave remembers it, eh? Stage note: apply universally-obscene rapid hand movement gesture.

Well as someone who was around in the early 80s I'll say a bit about how I found it. I spent a lot of my time with lesbian and gay groups . Note back then it was not lgbt . As a bi sexual woman that could be problematic , seen as a cop out . Luckily the people I worked alongside were not judgemental and also included a few transgender women . All very active in what was in reality lgbt (though not called that )and feminist politics .

There was a number of middle class women who yes were playing at being political lesbians and were often extremely judgemental towards those who did not meet their defined standards of feminism . Saw the rest of us as having
false consciousness etc .
I remember some S/M dykes ( their chosen description ) who were politically active , some black , being verbally attacked as racist and anti women and banned from meetings by straight White feminists .

I prefered to work with socialist feminists , lgbt people and those lefty men who did not lecture me about waiting for the revolution ! Oh and women , usually middle class , berating me for dying my hair or wearing make up but who hadn't a clue bout life for working class women .

I find it strange that some feminists , such as Bindel , attack transgender women . These women are ridiculed and attacked ( and often killed ) because they don't fit neatly with societies gender expectations , they challenge them . Surely they are allies of feminists ?

It's left me with a dislike of lefties and feminists who decide who is or is not a so socialist or a feminist , lecturing me ,and I much prefer people who work with the contradictions than with some sort of personal and political purity .

“What can have happened to all those deeply earnest young women, clad in black leggings and DMs, who once drunkenly argued that penetrative sex is inherently oppressive and that all men are rapists, sometimes only an hour or two prior to an entirely voluntary temporary suspension of their political lesbianism? “

Simple:

2.4 kids, a Mondeo, an overpriced mortgage, regular trips to the supermarket, a 2.1 in sociology, daily prozac and an old man who thinks 'political lesbianism' is voting for Anne Widdicombe.

Written on mobile and missed out bits , so just to add re S/M dykes example . It was also political lesbians who were most critical , saying they were not really lesbians or loved women . Setting themselves up as judges .

I'm sure many political lesbians were genuine , bit not all and yes some were as Dave said and I'm pretty sure next morning would be back judging the rest of us !

I agree, Stroppybird. I remember such people. They should be administered oral Diazepan, strapped to a chair and forced to watch 'Shortbus' until they scream for mercy!

By genuine I mean there were political lesbians who were guided by principles and did not judge others . Some of course were into feminist one up 'womanship' . The feminist equivalent of the Punchie school of socialism .

Can't say I understand half the comments complaining about sexism. Dave's usual style is to use stereotypes to comic effect, no real difference here surely?

But the substance of the article is both important and timely, I though - and I have written as much over at my place.

Just as a last note, I think it's important to remember of the absurdity of "feminism" as a unitary analytical category - so many elements regarded as "feminism" are mutually contradictory.

Feminism is a funny term really, I think it is a very broad term basically recognising that women and men are not equal due to society and that gender in itself is not biological but societal. After that then anything goes.

Liberal feminism, socialist feminism, Marxist feminism, radical feminsim, anarchust feminism, islamic feminism, conservative feminism, eco feminism etc etc.

When I first got involved wth politics it was with rad feminists who were vegans and mostly lesbians and were on the anarchist side of things. I quite likedit because it was completely different than anything else I had experienced however it wasn't really my scene.

I suppose I became a socialist feminist however even that did not resolve where I was coming from and working in the violence towards women field of work I have become more radical in my thought on feminism and went back to explore more radical feminist writings and discussion and I found it fits with my outlook.

I think having a radical feminist position can fit very well with socialism, it can also jar but heh ho that's what debate, discussion and even arguments are for.

Evelyn Reed's collection of letters and articles on Cosmetics, Fashion and the Exploitation of Women is agreat read, I am with stroppy on the dying the hair, red lipstick and fishnet school of fashion - I also like to bake and knit.

And can I just point out that although Cat may not agree with all my feminism ( or Janines or other contributors ) , we agree on enough to share a blog :-)

Duncan- Genuine question, what, apart from Obnoxio's comment, constitutes sexist drivel in the comments below this piece?

I'd broadly agree with Andy Newman (my condolences comrade. I'm as peturbed by this turn of events as you) on Dave's original post. I accept fully that it's written with humourous intent. But I don't see how the fact something is a joke somehow means it's immune to criticism. Ditto Dave Semple's point on stereotypes. It's true, but not all stereotypes are created equal. There is a massive difference between stereotyping "toffs" and "feminazis" in terms of structual power. Particuarly when at least some of those stereotypes mirror the attempts of the right to discredit feminism.

I have no time at all for Bea Campbell. But Dick Puddlecoate's use of a a gender specific insult like "cow" strikes me as dubious, moreso in the context of this thread. As does the term "hideous". Yes, it could refer to her politics. But it isn't stretching things to suggest it could also be read as putting her down for her physical appearance.

However, I read Doug's comment very differently then Eddie Truman seems to have. It didn't come across as sexist or an attack on feminism- it was a cynical observation on the motives of some self-proclaimed feminist men. (Equally, I could be missing the point here. But if the Sheridan comment is a reference to alledged swinging, I can't see the issue. Consensual adults can do what they want in my book. There's a lot Sheridan can be criticised for, but not that).

Those are the ones that kinda stood out. Overall though, it a general vibe. But not something that I can put my finger on, in terms of the details. I just get the impression that some male comrades are taking a discussion of feminism and sexism far less seriously than they'd take one of, say, industrial action.

OK, well let me do some self criticism and take back some of the above points I made and say that I think some of the above points I made were too (pious?), and others are pretty unfair to Dave. But I also think the comments from those such as Eddy, Hugh and Newman range from being po-faced to ridiculous. I'd agree broadly with Dave Semple now.

The post was probably based on the news that Beatrix Campbell, Order of the British Empire, has been adopted as a Green parliamentary candidate. It's worth noting that and her life trajectory is also noteworthy - I wonder if she ever compares gongs with my former boss, Linda Bellos, also Order of the British Empire. Campbell really is a prime example of all that was excreable about the 'Marxism Today 'wing of the CPGB - I think I'd rather have a Tory that that political scab as an MP.

Additionally it is a good point to note the near collapse of feminism (and other things like youth socialist movements) And are there are radical gay organisations left? Once you could near presume any gay group may well have a Leftist mind set, now the gay world (although I am less informed now) just seems completely about hedonism and consumerism.

SPP-

OK, well let me do some self criticism and take back some of the above points I made and say that I think some of the above points I made were too (pious?), and others are pretty unfair to Dave.

It's crucial that those of us on the left are prepared to criticise each other, without that we stagnate. Besides, not one of us is entirely free of shit we've picked up from capitalist society. It's what makes these kind of discussions vital.

In general, I only bother to engage enough to criticise those I see as on the same side as me. If I don't see the point, I either ignore or insult, depending on my mood.

The post was probably based on the news that Beatrix Campbell, Order of the British Empire, has been adopted as a Green parliamentary candidate.

Absolutely. And I don't see any problem with your criticism of her in this post. The issue comes when people criticise her using sexist language and/or anti feminist stereotyping. In the same way as it's entirely right to criticise Diane Abbott. But not by tapping in to racist assumptions.

More subtly, there's a really annoying tendency for a lot of people on the left to take an individual feminist where criticism would be totally justified but then overextrapolate from that to talk about feminism in general.

I'm not saying that feminism, or the specific strands within it, shouldn't be held up to scrutiny. But the difference is this. If I was to have a debate with you about Trotskyism, if it was based on general political disagreements with a grasp of the overall ideology, I'm sure we'd both agree that was entirely valid. If I was to point to the WRP and go "look, that's what Trotsykism is like!", I suspect you'd see that as politically dishonest.

Additionally it is a good point to note the near collapse of feminism (and other things like youth socialist movements) And are there are radical gay organisations left? Once you could near presume any gay group may well have a Leftist mind set, now the gay world (although I am less informed now) just seems completely about hedonism and consumerism.

There's definitely less than there were. Which I'd see as part of the decline of the left and widespread cynicism about political activism in general. A lot of the groups I knocked about with in the 90's (Homocult, Queers Bash Back, The Pink Panthers) are now sadly defunct.

There's obviously still Outrage. And the Lesbian Avengers are still going. On a youth subcultural level, the queercore (gay hardcore punk, essentially) crowd tend to be pretty radical. There's also Bash Back in the US, but I don't think they exist here.

@Waterloo

You are correct that we should discuss these things - and it is also good if we can be self- critical about ourselves.

I'm agreeing with you, to a fair degree. No socialist would write a post saying something like 'must read more about black liberation ...reminds me of dreadlocked black separatists who would wear Jamaican coloured hats and insist on white comrades only ... or who would (I could go on but just Google 'Shanta Driver' sometime or look at http://www.regroupment.org/main/page_appendix_3.html to see how mad some Trots can get, but the sad thing is that I remember them as very good and hardcore).

I agree that we can't use sexist stuff to describe Campbell; I think only Puddlecote did so.

I agree completely with "More subtly, there's a really annoying tendency for a lot of people on the left to take an individual feminist where criticism would be totally justified but then overextrapolate from that to talk about feminism in general."

It's probably a fine line between using a stereotype to quickly identify a trend (the DM wearing,spiky-haired etc) and making silly amalgams. I am certainly guilty of doing it as well, if it has been done here.

And incidentally was in W H Smiths at Liverpool Street station a few months when some students - mainly, but not all women - came in and took copies of Zoo, Loaded etc off shelves and put them into brown paper bags - with messages about sexism etc - and then put them back.

I must say I was in two minds, with a small voice thinking 'this is censorship' but then a lot more of me thinking it's what these dross magazines deserve; eroticism and porn should be allowed but overwhelming, continious shots of topless women (with covered nipples) on all low rent mens magazines is just sexist bollocks. I was also pleased that some people had the uumph to get out there and do something.

Yeah, the Rev Gay Mens Causcus (RCP types) even the Labour Party Lesbian and Gay Campaign were often Trot types. Now it's all styling, Gaydar and dressing up for parades. I walked through Manchester gay village the other week and it's all pink pound and well-dressed students, I recall going there in early 80s with a gay friend from the LPYS when it was uniformly bleak, full of drinking holes with no women whatsoever, but if you were a overweight gay bus-driver with a 'tache from Oldham (a completely fair stereotype) you could probably have found someone; now the fag-hag door pickers wouldn't even let such types into the venues.

"gender in itself is not biological but societal. After that then anything goes."

I suspect it's 'gender relations' that are societal, rather than biological. Your chromosomes determine your gender, society notwithstanding!

In primitive society and for most of human history gender was totally biological and as Winston correctly says gender relations were societal but technology could make it possible for even gender itself to become societal.

The future could be more rise of the Shemales rather than rise of the Cybermen.

SPP makes a good point about censorship and direct action, I have to say my sympathy lies with direct action in the example he gave.

I presume this is the same Andy Newman who defended his masters voice when Galloway commented on her arse and buyi ng her knickers for 'his woman ?'

I think the left obviously need to be part of the campaigns against racism, sexism etc but we should avoid becoming at the same time the politically correct police or the puritans of political correctness.

If Andy Newman found Galloway in bed with his wife, he'd make him a cup of tea, light his cigar and pay for his taxi.

Ahh Doug

Very ITV sitcom , but I'd hope some men on the left don't see relationships as always being marriage , possession and monogamy . I mean you assume married monogamy and imply Andy as not man enough to be outraged to find some man in bed with HIS wife .

Be good if the left could grasp different types of relationships and not just replicate bourgeois models .

It's far too funny a scene to make it into an ITV sitcom (They just don't make em like The Upper Hand anymore)

Of course Stroppy - remember to check out www.stroppyblog.blogspot.com to catch up on socialist feminist blogging

Well done Stroppy for your deconstruction of a silly throwaway joke at Andy Newman's expense. I bet you're great company and not at all like the stereotypical po-faced feminist.

Stroppy (and cheerleader)

I guess you were the only ones that didn't actually get that the joke wasn't that Andy Newman wouldn't be man enough but an exaggeration to show how in any extreme circumstances he won't say a word against Galloway.

Sorry to disappoint you but even though I'm a socialist if I found another man in bed with my wife I would be very pissed off, as I was when my former wife of 20+ years suddenly told me she didn't love me but another bloke. Whether you consider that I felt like that because I unconsciously considered her my property or actually was distraught because I loved her (or both) is really immaterial - I really didn't feel like doing a socialist feminist self-assessment at the time. As for that old feminist chestnut about using the term 'my wife', what is the correct thing to say - 'the wife', 'a wife'? Presumably it's OK for a woman to say 'my husband'? Or is it? FFS what kind of world do you live in?

"I bet you're great company and not at all like the stereotypical po-faced feminist."

Yeah, as anyone who knows me will attest i'm a puritanical po-faced, anti sex, anti -fun feminist .

Oh and yes i got the joke, and i'm pretty sure Doug you know i'm not exactly a supporter of Galloway and have had many a debate on the blogs with those that excuse or cheerlead him .

But as this was a post about feminism , I wanted to make the point that the left are not great on sexual politics generally .

They often replicate the gender roles and relationships in society, the capitalist society they are quick to critique in areas such as economics or imperialism, less so when closer to home and personal.

So yeah, we need to question the institution of marriage , relationships and not just follow a slightly woolier version of Daily Mail land .

Oh and is it OK for a woman to say husband. Well I don't assume they would be married or heterosexual, but if they are surely refer to him by his name. A person , not a role .

Also, i'm not dismissing how you felt re your wife. Lets just say been there, done that and know its crap.

There is a wider debate to be had re sex and love, why people get possessive over sex and then also the whole area of poly relationships and loving more than one person.

But thats a whole big debate and too complicated for the comments here .

I am aware that relationships aren't always about marriage and monogamy but as the subject was Andy Newman, the reference to his wife was because he's actually married.

You might not consider yourself as po-faced, anti sex and anti fun but you give a good impression of someone working for the feminist thought police, all language and words carefully scrutinised for petty lapses. Unless you reserve your strict feminist principles for blog threads and don't upbraid your male friends and colleagues if they use phrases like 'my wife' in everyday conversation. In which case you're a hypocrite.

Doug, you have actually read my blog haven't you ?

I mean, i'm usually criticised for being quite the opposite with my views on porn, sex, sex work and talk of fishnets and what not. Oh and told off by Paddy as well . I have been slated by feminists on the blogs as well.

Yes I know your point about Andy , and as I say I think people know my views on SU and Galloway and all that.

And my point was not so much as feminist one, it was (and to be honest its sort of becoming much more of a big deal than I intended re your comment) more around sexual politics .

re my wife and my mates.Well to be honest I hardly know anyone who is married, but the ones I know tend to call them by their names .

Also, this isn't down the pub, this is a debate on a post about feminism, so surely this is the place to discuss this ?

btw, isn't that how the right and Daily Mail types like to portray feminists, all po faced and anti sex?

Anyway, off to read some Dworkin, dressed in dungarees, sensible shoes and no make up.

I wasn't going to comment since others have taken up the necessary task of educating the author of this blog.
I do however have to confirm that Stroppy is not at all po-faced!

I wasn't gonna comment either especially as I reckon Dave only put this post up so I could tell the world how sexist he was last sat shoving 20 pound notes down my bra!

But I do have to laugh @ anyone who thinks stroppy is po faced anti sex and anti fun they really should read stroppyblog lol

Was Bea Campbell ever really a feminist or was her feminism just a special way of following the path of Martin Jacques, Aaronovich etc? And perhaps taking it further.
Incidentally when I was assisting at the Grunwick commemoration -held in Kilburn - I was near overwhelmed by a crowd of women who were crushing in to hear Arthur Scargill. ("When's Arthur speaking?") Maybe they felt the miners' solidarity with the sisters at Grunwick outweighed any criticism of their "male violence" (when banging their heads violently on police riot clubs).
I don't know how many will vote for Campbell in the constituency. If I was there I'd sooner vote for Sarah Teather.

"I wasn't gonna comment either especially as I reckon Dave only put this post up so I could tell the world how sexist he was last sat shoving 20 pound notes down my bra!"

Yes Marsha Jane, it was my £20 note as well and I fished it out of your cleavage ;-)

Nothing po-faced about last saturday night , much said that wouldn't be acceptable in polite company !

The entire discussion of Andy Newman's reaction to coming home and discovering his wife in bed with Mr Galloway is really just a flimsy pretext for a series of shameful, scurrilous and vindictive accusations.

It's also highly implausible - we all know it's much more likely that his wife will one day return home to the smell of fine Scotch whisky and Cuban cigars and the sight of Andy in bed with Mr Galloway.

The use of 'my' need imply neither ownership, nor dominion over, although I understand it can be used in this way.

When Christians talk of 'my God', in fact, they imply their subservience to their God.

When royalists refer to 'my Queen', they do so in honour and respect.

When workers speak of 'my Foreman', this may be in deference or subordination.

The context makes a difference: 'I'll tell my wife to pick us up' implies something different to 'I'll ask my wife whether I can use the car tonight'.

I once caught Andy Newman wanking over a picture of me. I made him wank over the Berlin wall instead.

I hate to disabuse Charlie Pottins (above), but Hampstead & Kilburn is a straight two horse race between Glenda Jackson and a multi-millionaire Tory. This is wht Sarah Teather opted to stand in Brent Central, even though Hampstead & kilburn takes in a significant part of her (current) Brent East seat. While i'm loathe to suggest that Green voters are by definition redistributionist, or even that dreadful label 'progressive', the fact is that most votes Bea Campbell recieves are likely to be votes lost to Glenda Jackson - a staunch anti-war, pro environment social democrat!

How very principled!