David Nowak – a 16-year old kid with the street name ‘Turk’ or ‘TK’ – fell victim to a knife killing in the playground across the road from my apartment block shortly before Christmas. Another teenage gang fight, apparently. Same thing happened to some other boy a couple of blocks away only a few months previously. Shrugs shoulders.
Three young men in the same age group - pictured left - were yesterday jailed for life for the murder of Garry Newlove, kicked to death outside his Warrington home in August last year after remonstrating with them for damaging his wife’s car. They were drunk and spliffed up at the time of the crime; Teenage Kicks, 2007 remix.
Meanwhile, one of today’s top stories in the British media is the controversy over ‘the Mosquito’, a device that prevents young people congregating in public places by emitting a high-pitched noise audible only to those aged under 25. The Children’s Commissioner for England and human rights group Liberty want it banned.
Violent or otherwise unruly behaviour on the part of youth is a real issue for working class communities, in inner cities and smaller towns alike. It is also one that many on the left – I’ll include myself here – feel instinctively uncertain about tackling.
The difficulty is avoiding the twin dangers of coming on like either a ‘Gee, Officer Krupke' parody or some deranged love child of David Blunkett and Melanie Phillips, manically demanding the return of the birch.
Yes, we can always advance a standard radical sociology critique. Of course these kids – socially formed under Labour governments, let us underline – are both products of the society around us and obviously deeply alienated from it.
Yes, some of the blame for teenage binge drinking surely lies with the directors of the giant booze companies that endlessly seek out new ways to encourage young people to guzzle their products, from ever-tackier sugar-filled alcopops to expensive advertising and promotional giveaway campaigns.
And no, the iniquities of ASBOs and the de facto return of the sus law – to which I was regularly subjected as a council estate teenager myself – don’t seem to have solved the problem, either.
I can’t honestly say that I know the answers. But if socialists ever want to be taken seriously be the people at the sharp end of this one, we need either to put forward some joined-up social policy thinking or risk leaving the field to the demagogues of all parties. After all, it's not kids in Belgravia or the posh bits of Cheshire and Surrey that are doing the dying.
Posted at 14:57, 12 February 2008
Comments (91)
1.Ban alcohol advertising and promotion.
2.Restrict off licence opening hours.
3.Raise drinking age to at least 21.
4.Nationwide ban on drinking in public.
4.Tighten drug laws to make consumption as well as possession a criminal offence.
5.Compulsory national military or community service for all school leavers prior to work or higher education.
Enough of all this crude liberterian nonsense that seems to have infected parts of the left particulary since the 1960's.
All very well going on about alienation and social conditions under capitalism, lack of facilities and all that, its all very true. But violent crime and anti social behaviour affects working class communities more than anyone else and we have to get a grip and listen to what people on the front line have to say and you will find that many other wise progressive working class people do advocate rather robust measures which believe me are much more extreme than the proposals that I mentioned.
This isn't the line of the democratic centralist party to which you belong, is it Paddy? Go on, admit it ...
Of course not, it just my personal opinion, maybe I should have added "in a personal capacity"
Its very interesting that quite a few on the left will agree with most of it, but won't say it publicly.
But on more serious note I don't think that any organisation on the left has come up with any particulary creative way to deal with these issues especially when it comes to communicating possible solutions apart from "its all going to be sorted after the revolution" to the class as a whole.
All we get are the usual platitudes.
The main problem is if you can handle three months inside (at the absolute most, after a fair few offenses and in the extremely unlikely event that you get caught by the idle plod and convicted by the unelected judiciary in the first place) you can get away with anything short of murder.
Murder'll net you 6/7 years with togb if you're unlucky and over eighteen.
Essentially they have carte blanche should they choose to exercise it.
And those platitudes ring rather hollow with most workers. It is seen as the preserve of middle class liberals who live in nice places, have plenty of money, well behaved kids and all that. They are totally out of touch with most peoples day to day lives. I don't think anyone here can seriously dispute this fact.
Paddy Garcia is correct, first post excepted, there's no reason why people who aren't psychos should be penalised.
It's a question of policing/sentencing, we pay the lazy gets we ought to get a decent job out of them.
If these scallies like a good scrap so much then give them what they want, conscript them. Send them to a trench in Afganistan. Believe me they will be shitting their pants and crying for mummy before they know it, very much doubt they will reoffend if they survive the experience.
Uncle Joe used this method to good effect during the war, anti social and criminal elements were used as tail gunners and on mine clearance operations.
Also think Chairman Mao had similar uses for such people.
might be worth looking into some of the work that the IWCA have done on this
http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07008.htm
Yes, the IWCA alone on the left seems to have got a bit of a grip on this. So did the IRA when they were active. You could leave your doors open.
Um, Paddy Garcia's gone a bit too far now...
Call me a liberal, due process obsessive if you like but extra-judicial kneecappings and the like is a bit off.
I believe in accountability, not to some bourguois court made up of unelected middle and upper class judges but accountability to the class as a whole.
Due process is only as good if it brings results, sometimes its better to take matters into our own hands rather than depend on the bourguois state for "justice" which more often than not means injustice whether its the whithewash over the murder of Jean Charles de Menzes or toerags being let off to reoffend again.
Well call me a liberal, but I think Paddy Garcia is mad.
If you treat people like shit you get shit people.
It's not complicated.
So you need to treat people properly and then you'll solve these problems.
Too right Paddy's views aren't those of the party he's a member of! Fucks sake, socialism is about class power and social justice. I see absolutely nothing positive in demonising young working class people, and neither will they!
As an aside these so-called Mosquito alarm systems don't just affect the yoof. I'm nearly 31 and my wife is almost 30 - earlier on the BBC helpfully broadcast the alarm and both of us could hear it quite clearly. Which is just as well as we both like to hang around on corners talking to our mates, skateboarding, and having a kick about - you know, the really anti-social stuff.
At this moment in time I'd settle for an elected, accountable judiciary and an element of the plod organised and accountable at ward level rather than under the direct control of some mealy mouthed, rotarian pseudo-pol who supposedly runs the entire county.
Street justice is no less likely to get the wrong bloke than the state and at least when the state fucks up the victim gets a few bob in compensation and needn't spend the rest of his life with a nasty limp or worse.
"If you treat people like shit you get shit people."
A sizable element of people in their teens/early twenties will go as far as they can get away with no matter how they're treated.
Cases in point:
a. Me, as was.
b. The Bullingdon Club.
It's where you draw the line and what methods you use to do so that makes the difference.
"Street justice is no less likely to get the wrong bloke than the state"
Not if you catch the culprits at it. One thing that really pisses me off (excuse the pun) is idiots pissing and at times taking a dump in the lift in my block, it happens everywhere. Its not fair on anybody especially the caretaker/cleaner who is usually a low paid migrant worker who has to clean the mess up.
Most of wouldn't shed any tears if the culprits were caught in the act, and if it wasn't a medical issue to do with incontinence, get a good hiding, kneecapping or whatever. May sound harsh, but what is wrong with three strikes out? If you don't let these scum out then they won't reoffend will they?
"A sizable element of people in their teens/early twenties will go as far as they can get away with no matter how they're treated."
True, so send them to Afganistan, let them face the Taliban and see what it does to them, they will be crying for their junkie mummies. And if they don't survive that's tough luck, another nail in the coffin of imperialism.
Of course the above should only apply to the most hard core repeat offeners a choice between that or an indefintie prison sentence.
Millions of people live under appalling social conditions. Most don't engage in violent and anti social behaviour, so that argument don't cut much ice with a lot of people.
"Millions of people live under appalling social conditions. Most don't engage in violent and anti social behaviour, so that argument don't cut much ice with a lot of people."
That I agree with.
I'd go as far as to say that street gobshites are THE biggest cause of inequality in living standards in this country, a roof over your head, a full stomach, and an environment you don't have to share with ubiquitous destructive shitbags are the basics.
Ok, I admit what I've said can be seen as rather extreme, but don't we all have our "Daily Mail" moments, especially if we and/or
our children, families and friends have been the victim of violent and anti social crime, as I have?
And there has been no justice done, whether its punishment or rehabilitation that works doesn't really mater, both are seriously lacking.
The ruling class are more than happy for people to languish in drug and crime riddled estates as long as the problem is contained and doesn't affect them directly.
Yes innocent working class youth do get harassed, that is totally wrong, at the same time priviliged celebrities such as Pete Doherty, Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse to name some recent examples get away with similar behaviour with impunity and while the press condemns working class youth, they offer Pete Doherty columns in their papers, these twats and others are glamorised in the media, win awards and so on. Is it surprising that others see them as role models and emulate that kind of behaviour rather than the puritinacal teetotal selfless lifestyle that someone like Che Guevara led?
After all Lenin did say "An ounce of experience is worth a ton of theory".
Shouldn't we listen to those at the sharp end? What I put forward has been condemned by all here, but nobody has come up with anything apart from the usual platitudes, which quite frankly most people are sick to death of hearing.
Paddy Garcia misses the fact that the sort of gobshites who crap in his block of flats, don't possess the necessary discipline that the army requires. Bullies are individualists. (There are bullies in the army, I am sure, but they are bullies who relate to structures.). To be honest the nihilism at the root of comtemporary English working class life is hardly surprising. Socialism has failed these people, they are relegated to concerete estates, no chance of getting off them unless they do join the army or go to prison, nil education because the schools are such rubbish, fragmented families, easily available intoxicants, and rapid demographic change with attendent gangland warfare. And don't forget, the Youth service has been decimated. I know these kids are not the sort that would go to Scouts or Sunday School or a nice wholesome youth club but at least some of them might not get caught up in mauruding estates if they could go and learn trampolining or caving. Actually, I said socialism has failed them, really I mean liberal democracy, socialism hasn't been tried yet. I think we are living through another 'Industrial Revolution' with all the social upheaval that entails, a result of globalisation. Probably the only think we can do is cross our fingers and hope it all turns out alright.
Just wanted to point out that the computer games are bloody violent and I don't think they help. Susceptible kids can be made anxious by them and you never know what is being absorbed by the unconscious. None of this would matter if we had a strong, vibrant working class culture in this country but I hate to say it, I don't think we do, not compared to my childhood. I think the sad specimens that parade themselves in the 'Jeremy Kyle' show are probably fairly representative of a large chunk of the white working class these days. I am always shocked by how even the elderly ones snort cocaine and the ugly ones seem to be having tons of sex with strangers in pub toilets. Perhaps we need a 'Restore Pride' campaign.
This is very worrying, am starting to agree with too much of what Sue R is saying.
The nihilism and hedonism of what passes off as youth culture these days isn't just a working class thing. The middle classes are at it as well, I mentioned Peter Doherty and co. as prime examples of this. The difference is that one is condemned and the other is elevated to a semi mythical position which they do not deserve.
"the sad specimens that parade themselves in the 'Jeremy Kyle' show are probably fairly representative of a large chunk of the white working class these days."
5% max. Whether they're working class or not, by and large, is debatable.
Extrapolating from the visible is foolish, for every prick hanging around outside the Spar causing shit/ bellowing on Trisha there are umpteen others not hanging around the Spar causing shit/ appearing on Trisha.
"Perhaps we need a 'Restore Pride' campaign."
We need a "Restore Empowerment Of Local Communities" campaign as a counterbalance to the current all powerful "Sit There And Take It You Savages, We Know Best" coalition.
You can't have pride without power.
Paddy
Let's be clear. I know you are writing in a personal capacity. But would you like to see the Socialist Party advocate workers' self-policing of working class areas?
Personally I think it is a good idea. What is the alternative? Rely on the bourgouis state?
I think it needs to be discussed as no organisation on the left apart from maybe the IWCA, seems to have got a slightest grip on this issue.
Crime and anti social behaviour is a serious class issue that urgently needs adressing. Isn't that the whole point of this discussion that you initiated?
You and others condemn me without giving a creative alternative that will appeal to the class.
Did I condemn you, Paddy? When?
My mum lives in a flat on a Council estate in West London. I did too until I got away, got myself a nice little studio flat about 30 minutes away. She has to put up with the 'youths' (not always they aren't - sometimes its pissed up men whose over-full bladders won't let them even wait the extra 30 seconds to get to their flat) urinating in the lifts. She has to put up with them shoving past her in bus queues and in the street, careless of the fact - or revelling in it, who knows? - that the older you get the less steady on your feet you are. And then there was the time she fell and they were laughing at her. She had a turd pushed through her letterbox early last year. The 'man' (I say it inverted commas because I don't think real men actually behave like that, like they don't give a flying fuck about their neighbours) in the flat above her likes heavy metal, loud, in the small hours, so she's actually grateful she's getting a bit more deaf. And I am absolutely terrified of him because he's out after a number of years away for GBH and is a drug-user so who knows where he's going with that. My mum stopped going out in November last year so I do the shopping and I talk to her about moving. But she's nearly 80 and my dad died in the flat. So she won't move. And its fucking up her life and her neighbours, and mine with the worry, and my relationship with my girlfriend and I look at my kids and I feel this vague sick feeling and a fear. All of which isn't taking this debate very far, but thanks for the chance to say it somewhere.
Hope you have moved it on jim. Now what is to be done? If comrades think the measures that I proposed in my first post aren't a good idea then has somebody got any alternatives apart from the usual platitudes?
Agree that you didn't write "I condemn paddy' Dave, but your reply to my first post was somewhat mocking and being the liberterian that you are I can safely assume that you will totally disagree with most of what I say.
"Hope you have moved it on jim. Now what is to be done? If comrades think the measures that I proposed in my first post aren't a good idea then has somebody got any alternatives apart from the usual platitudes?"
Yup.
Residents ought to have veto powers over "problem tenants," currently rat bastard lawyers can drag eviction proceedings out for over a year, which leaves residents stuck with a nutter with a grievance for the forseeable future so it's a waste of time doing anything about it.
"Oooh, where would they live?"
Dunno, fuck 'em if they can't behave themselves.
The answer to all of this shit is to put genuine democratic power in the hands of people at the lowest conceivable level.
In Jim's case I'd have to agree with Paddy, that bloke wants sorting out.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !
Socialist Party member and leftist poseur 'Paddy Garcia' thinks national military service for school leavers is an answer !
What, so they can go and invade other countries in the service of British imperialism ?
Luckily for the Socialist Party they have at least one sensible member contributing to this thread.
I elaborated on that issue on a another thread here a few months back. No need to repeat myself except to say with a conscript army Iraq, Afganistan, Ireland and other imperialist adventures would not have happened.
Most European countries have national service and its usually the left who want to maintain it as the alternative is a professional military which is what the right wing in those countries want so as to persue EU/US foreign policy without mass mutiny in the ranks. Think about it.
Anyway that is off the subject under discussion here.
National service doesn't have to be military service. One can be a firefighter, do social and community work, etc. As long as pay, conditions, right to strike join unions are same as the others in the job, what is the problem with it. This exists in most other European countries, what are we so different?
Again another comrade slagging me off without saying remotely helpful on the topic.
Lord. This is one of the worst discussions I have seen on this issue. No one questions whether the actions of working class youth are the most harmful thing our class faces. No one asks whey there is such a focus on this type of violence rather than the violence of the workplace or the violence in private spaces, or sexual violence or violence against children. It is easier to get involved in a cod discussion about the sociology of working class youth. Truly uniformed nonsense. 1,000 people die early every year in London not because they are bashed on the head by young people but because of pollution that effects poor areas most - that is what realy is murderous violence against the working class. 20,000 elderly die early every year not because they are scared of the young people on the street corner but because they cannot afford to heat their homes - that is real and market planned violence that matters. Please get a grip.
Am sure its all true atis, why not say all that to somebody who is grieving for a lost child or a lost father as a result of violent anti social behaviour and senseless murder for no other reason as "I kicked a man just to watch him die" What is your solution? Wait until the revolution? Sorry, that just ain't good enough for most people.
An issue close to my heart. I'm sick of living in a society where this kind of thing just isn't surprising anymore. I usually have about 4 anecdotes per week about unruly teenage tw@ts I see on my way home from work after an evening shift.
Last year I myself got my head used as a punchbag for a good 10 minutes by two scumbags who seem eerily identical to the ones in the picture above. Luckily I came away with only a black eye, cuts, bruises and a bruised rib. They didn't even take anything off me, just announced: "Today's your unlucky day mate" before getting stuck in, and weren't deterred in the slightest when a passerby (twice the size of them) intervened on my behalf.
I disagree with most of what paddy garcia has said -- and some of the stuff above about Amy Winehouse and computer games is pure unsubstantiated speculation/fantasy of a Dail Mail kind -- but he is right about this:
The ruling class are more than happy for people to languish in drug and crime riddled estates as long as the problem is contained and doesn't affect them directly.
Without wanting to get too poncey and sociological, I think much of what happens can also be attributed to a particularly extreme construction of masculinity (rooted in the specific historical context, i.e. deindustrialisation and neoliberalism) which asnwers social, economic and political powerlessness with the sense of empowerment associated with being violent, aggressive, territorial, fearsome, dominant etc.
I'm more sceptical than outraged about ASBOs and high pitched sirens. I can look upon them on the one hand as a misguided and relatively authoritarian stop-gap measure to alleviate the misery endured by ordinary working class people, but ultimately I think they're just a get-out cause for the governing class whose policies fuel this chaos in the first place.
Yes the ruling classes have caused this chaos and ultimately the soloution is to overthrow capitalism.
But for fucks sake, people aren't going to wait that long are they? They want something to be seen as working pretty damn quick and nobody here apart from me is proposing anything that may alliviate some of the problems.
Easy for me to say, I don't live on a council estate but my sister does. She's had a similar experience to Jim, and it makes me so sad. Council housing, which working class people had to fight to get is turned into dumping grounds for the lumpen elements in society. However, all I can suggest is the revival of the tenants' association and some form of self-defenceband. Difficult I know when working people are so fragmented and those on these estates are by definition often the most vunerable ie old, poor, ex-cons, ex-psychiatric patients, learning difficulties etc. As for the talking heads on the Jeremy Kyle show not being working class, does Scratch mean they are lumpen? Yeah, they are often from the depths of society but thirty years ago I think they would have been gainfully employed and respectable working class. It's globalisation, I tell you.
The point is that many many more people are dying painful deaths at the hands of their partners/parents or in the workplace because of the absence of health and safety or suffer real and sustained non fatal domestic violence. Most young men die at the hands of other young men due to manslaughter (drunken fights) not the kind of stuff that gets the headlines. These things should be the focus of the discussion rather than the unusual killing of a middle aged man by young boys. Look at the data - such a murder is very very unusual - two thirds of people are murdered by people they know. Margaret Thatcher introduced the idea of the 'enemy within' and many of the comments in this debate merely continue the discussion in another form - blame working class youth.
I completely agree with all of the suggestions Paddy Garcia made in his first post (except I would emphasise compulsory community service rather than military service).
I think he's slightly mad to start praising IRA-style "community justice" but those kind of sentiments and policy proposals in his first post are spot on.
Atis Mia irritates the fuck out of me because although the points about pollution dangers and pensioner poverty are valid it is obnoxious to so readily dismiss concerns over anti social behaviour. Dave's blog is full of political, economic and social analysis of a range of issues - it seems moronic to suggest that just because Dave has made a post about anti social behaviour he is somehow neglecting other problems facing British working-class communities.
Tory Chris Grayling recently said much of the rise of antisocial behaviour can be attributed to weakening of traditional social institutions such as churches and trade unions. Probably true (although as an atheist I wouldn't want religion to be used once again as a form of mass social control!). It seems to me we must also look at the failures of parents. What responsibility do the mums and dads of the pictured killers have for the actions of their offspring? Fine, they were all over 16, but still.
Not that it's hugely important in the greater scheme of things, but I've found the newspaper reports that none of those killers has shown any signs of remorse deeply disturbing. These lads must be morally retarded.
How did they get to that stage, and how can we stop the same happening others...those are the questions
Yes it is statistically unusual, but other serious violence and anti social behaviour is more common than you think. We have two posters already talk about their experiences, and I can as well but wont bore you with the details.
I don't think anybody here is blaming working class youth as a whole, just a very tiny anti social element. I made a point of also blaming elements of the priviliged middle classes such as Amy Winehouse and Pete Doherty who despite their behaviour seem to get away with it and excused by the media and others. When its people like them who should be taken out and shot!
Was anyone else shocked by the case during the week of a man who lived the the corpse of his lodger in his living room for at least five years, and possibly ten? There had been numerous complaints about the stink but no-one came round from the Council to see what was causing it ie a blocked drain. The man had mental problems (not sure whether it was learning difficulties or psychiatric) but no social worker had obviously visited him for many years. People can't cope, they are not being give the tools they need to cope. Caroline Flintheart last week revealed the Labour Government's attitude to council tenants, they are all workshy and shouldn't be entitled to a roof over their head. Reclaim the Estates!!! I would be prepared to get involved in any campaign along those lines. Where my sister lives, in Somers Town, back in the 70's it had one of the most active tenants' associations and they defeated Camden Council on many things. We need to get back to those days. I don't know how, that's the problem.
Atis, at Christmas a youth was stabbed and died just 50 metres from my front door. It was a young man being killed at the hands of another young man, it made the headlines, and it seems a legitimate topic of discussion amongst those on the left who want to help influence politics and change society.
"Tory Chris Grayling recently said much of the rise of antisocial behaviour can be attributed to weakening of traditional social institutions such as churches and trade unions. Probably true" Another buy in to a ruling class argument then.
"I don't think anybody here is blaming working class youth as a whole, just a very tiny anti social element. " This repeats New Labour policy line about 'crime' and 'anti-social behaviour'.
For the record, I have been subject to various kinds of serious assault in the street and I live in one of the poorest and most violent areas in the country. My point is not that we do not live in a violent society but ask why do we accept the focus on one sort of violence that forms a miniscule proportion of the overall violence we face? I argue lets look at the totality of violence and the power structures driving the different forms rather than the very unusual murder that Dave focused on and the idea that public violence is the biggest threat we face.
Sometimes, rare though it is, the odd tory and new labour do sometimes state the obvious.
I agree that Britain isn't the most violent society and a lot of this is just media hype. Nevertheless these things do happen, and most disturbingly as the examples show happen randomly for no reason, often as a result of drugs and alcohol.
There seems to be a disproportionate and unhelpful focus on council estates in this discussion when this kind of violence happens in other places too, even in better off areas.
I was TA activist some time ago and there was a serious problem on the estate and we had to fight the council to put money into better lighting and security which they took about ten years to finally do.
At the time I used to go on about social conditions causing crime, lack of youth facilities and all that in the meetings, and guess what? I would get shouted down practically every time by working class traditional Labour voters of all ethnic backgrounds, who really mocke dme for being a soft liberal, and believe me some of the "solutions" that my fellow tenants advocated were much more extreme than anything that I have mentioned here.
This is where we are at, anti social behaviour blights working class communtites and the victims are among the most oppressed sections of the class. It is they who demand answers and it is up to us as socialists to offer them.
"but ask why do we accept the focus on one sort of violence that forms a miniscule proportion of the overall violence we face?"
It's not miniscule, at least the threat of it isn't, it affects the way people behave; the things they do, the places they go and the times they do so.
Also, it's more visible than pollution or whatever and consequently more important to punters.
A powerful position on antisocial shitbaggery is essential for socialists, the lack of one is the mark of vote-costing, unserious liberal dilletantes*.
*Not you neccesarily, I'm talking about Guardianistas and the like.
The comments in this thread are the most reactionary I have read in any debate on the left in relation to crime and 'law and order' in 30 years involvement in socialist politics.
Whats wrong Eddie? I'm sure you get out and about a bit. Don't you listen to working class concerns on the issue? What is your solution then? Short of a socialist revolution that is.
"The comments in this thread are the most reactionary I have read in any debate on the left in relation to crime and 'law and order' in 30 years involvement in socialist politics."
Would they be the last thirty years? The ones during which the socialist movement has been in headlong retreat on all fronts?
Opposing destructive street nihilists is not reactionary.
Eddie, maybe the left has failed in relation to crime and 'law and order' over the past 30 years.
Come out of your own arse and engage with the points made.
I've been reading this blog a longtime and I honestly never thought I would agree so much with Paddy Garcia! He's even taking the piss out of the standard silly-Trot position of promising that the revolution will fix everything!
The left is brilliant when it comes to articulating what we are against, but can be totally crap at addressing the day to day issues that are of concern to most people.
Law and order and defence being two cases in point, am sure there are others too.
What happens? The Daily Mail bigots win the day.
Just read an awful item on the Evening Standard website. A man who went to administer first aid to a victim of an assualt was kicked to death. Well, Mr Truman, isn't that a class question? The Police have arrested a 17-year old scumbag. This incident took place in Brigend, there seems to be some big problems down there. I noticed the London Fire Brigade today said it was concerned about attacks on its men when they are fighting fires. Wouldn't happen under sharia, would it Eddie?
"It's not miniscule, at least the threat of it isn't,"
In comparison to the data on violence in society it is mimiscule - yet this thread has mostly bought into the fact that it is important. Very unmaterialist and very depressing.
"Sometimes, rare though it is, the odd tory and new labour do sometimes state the obvious."
It is an old and tired argument that because the old order changes (which we liked) - things are now worse. Traditional tory and ahistorically wrong.
New Labour's argument that 'it is a small minority' is simply wrong and aimed at turning the working class againt itself. The most serious violence is not a product of working class turpitude it is a product of inequality. Look at the data - this is what it shows. Go ahead blaming working class youth - that is the favourite of the liberal Guardian - which always comes down on the side of repression 'regretfully'.
Perspective, please. I'm not suggesting working class violence is the most pressing problem facing humanity, or even the British working class.
But it is a real issue and worth debating. Ask the people the live on the council estate opposite my (relatively posh)flat. The Nowak boy that got knifed was one of their lads. Of course they are concerned.
I was going to post a link about increases on attacks on firefighters and paramedics, but sue has already mentioned it.
A lot of them result from hoax calls and these scallies then corner them and throw stones and fireworks at them.
Now am sure some will say that they are bored youth looking for kicks, which they most probobaly are, but then don't you think that attacks on these workers are just beyond contempt?
I see sue has mentioned sharia. Before anyone reacts to that can we all please not let this discussion degenerate into the right and wrongs of sharia and related matters? Please?
"New Labour's argument that 'it is a small minority' is simply wrong and aimed at turning the working class againt itself. The most serious violence is not a product of working class turpitude it is a product of inequality"
Not denying that some of this may be true. So what would you do then? How would you address this issue in a tenants meeting for example when people are literally baying for blood, especially if something awful has recently happened?
How would you relate to people at the sharp end?
They will tell you to go wipe your arse with a copy of the guardian.
What is your solution, a transitional demand if you like, short of a socialist revolution?
You have yet to say anything at all constructive, only what we hear all the time for the left. Its time we moved on.
Paddy, I agree. Kinda.
I mean, fuck Guardianism. But what practically does the left say?
I don't want to argue for 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'. If nothing else, repressive policing is counter-productive.
I hated it when I was a teenager and couldn't go out for the night without guaranteed hassle from the Old Bill.
Bang 'em up? Well, we don't need more 17 year olds slain by their cellmates or deciding to top themselves at Grisley Risley, do we?
Of course not. But are you seriously saying that violent offenders shouldn't get a custodial sentence of some kind? Sure let it be therapy, drug/alcohol treatment, anger management, education, training or whatever they need to address their offending behaviour. These places should be properly funded and staffed with skilled workers.
But then if they have these opportunities and still keep reoffending on release, what are the options then? Something a bit less fluffy like a military style boot camp where intense psychical activities as well as the more therapeutic elements perhaps? Then if that doesn't work what? I really don't see what the problem with "three strikes out" indefinite sentences for the most serious violent offenders.
1: Visible police presence, including physical infrastructure within walking distance of any community (not the current Green Zone style plans for super stations).
2: More special constables, specifically recruited from local communities.
3: Ken's already on this, but restore council spending on youth provision, social clubs, etc.
4: End the lower rate minimum wage for under 18's so that kids - with little by way of financial obligations, could find paid work and all the structure that brings, to be an attractive offer.
5: Changes to school discipline regimes, e.g. school juries, more democratic processes, let the kids have "ownership" of their schools and discipline.
Bring back the Black Act of 1723 (9 Geo. 1c22) and the Riot Act of 1715 (1 Geo. 1c5).
And all those laws where you could be hung for stealing an item worth more than a shilling.
And all those laws where you could be hung for stealing an item worth more than a shilling.
There has never been a law providing for people to be hung. PLenty to have them hanged, but none for being hung.
Meat is hung, people are hanged.
At the top, Scratch said that you get 7/8 years for murder. This is balls - last time I checked, about 2000, the mean time served by those released from life sentences was 14 years. Over the last 15 years sentences for almost everything have gone up.
Sue R - the Black Act was actually a very specialised and politically-motivated measure. For some really good analysis of it, read EP Thompson's _Whigs and Hunters_. Hanging people for theft never really happened: juries were very reluctant to convict. And it didn't stop theft.
Solutions for today? (1) Check out the IWCA (2) Run police democratically, but until then, get local government reps on statutory crime and disorder reduction partnerships to demand that police resources are devoted to tackling life-wrecking behaviour. (3) re-build the youth service.
At the top, Scratch said that you get 7/8 years for murder. This is balls - last time I checked, about 2000, the mean time served by those released from life sentences was 14 years. Over the last 15 years sentences for almost everything have gone up.
Ho hum...
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hRAGfMAuFd6GkGjNoum1Kh2JW1Dg
"But Swellings' solicitor said the sentence handed out to his 19-year-old client exceeded parliament's recommendation of 15 years for similar crimes."
That's 7.5 years with time off for good behaviour.
Replacement of the toothless Joint Police Boards with a new community, regional and national police boards, which would hold the police to account and would include elected councillors, MSPs and directly elected community representatives.
Free heroin on prescription to registered addicts, under controlled conditions, to reduce petty crime and to undermine the lucrative criminal empires which have been built on the illegal supply of heroin.
The expansion of drug and alcohol rehabilitation and detox facilities.
The legalisation of cannabis.
A zero tolerance approach to violence and abuse of children, women and vulnerable people.
A Scottish-wide strategy to reduce domestic violence, including special domestic violence courts, domestic violence awareness training and rehabilitation programmes.
All convicted sex offenders to be legally required to undergo a sex offender programme either within the community or within custody, depending upon the level of risk they pose.
Increased police resources specifically dedicated to monitoring and supervision of sex offenders.
The establishment of special secure units providing intensive rehabilitation for sex offenders who are judged to pose a continuing risk to the public.
An end to the practice which allows those accused of sex offences the right to cross-examine their alleged victims in court, and for these principles to be extended into civil litigation proceedings.
A reduction in Scotland's prison population - already the highest in Western Europe pro-rata to the population - by expanding alternatives to custody for offenders who are not a danger to the public.
An end to the waste of the police and legal resources devoted to arresting and prosecuting people for the possession of cannabis for personal use.
Community youth forums across Scotland to identify what amenities are needed in each local area.
Local youth facilities in every community, run by young people.
Education, prevention and treatment to tackle bullying.
A system of accountability over judges and sheriffs that would allow them to be removed from their posts if they have lost the confidence of the general public. This would be done in consultation with the Law Society of Scotland and Victim Support Scotland.
The restoration of recent cutbacks in Legal Aid.
The extension of legal aid to cover workplace and consumer disputes.
A new fast track appeals system to deal with suspected miscarriages of justice.
The reversal of all privatisation and PFI in the prison service.
The expansion of prison rehabilitation programmes, including education, training, psychiatric and psychological support, drug and alcohol detox, rehab and abstinence programmes.
Resistance to all Westminster interference in devolved matters.
For the Scottish Parliament to have the right to set its own laws on asylum, drugs, anti-terrorism and media regulation.
Paddy, I think you just want to be the dictator in charge. Sorry if few of the rest of us don't see the world should be that way, somehow.
Just wanted to point out that the computer games are bloody violent and I don't think they help.
How are you being any better than your Rock-n-Roll-fearing parental generation? The generations after you are all solidly less violent and less hedonistic than YOU were. Isn't that enough for you?
And getting ideas of what anybody's culture's really like from TV or the media is pretty lazy. You could, er, try watching and listening to what real people do, before forming conclusions about them. Or at least look at real, long-term numbers.
How about treating other PEOPLE with the respect they deserve, with due respect for human rights? Many of you rightly demanded the same on behalf of yourselves, colonial subjects, and blacks. Are you the last generation that deserves human rights?
I don't get my ideas about other people's culture fromthe telly, I stopped watching it years ago, far too bloody violent. It's true about the games, I think that it was actually me who posted that comment by the way, my kids play some of them and I think they are appalling. The thing is, and it goes for tv as well, that it provokes andrelinine and excitement without being able to resolve it satisfactorily. I believe it also conditions vunerable people to associating violence and pleasure. Not everyone who plays those games is going to go out and stab a 14 year old, but it shifts the goal posts. Let's not forget the role of drugs here as well. Often the only way a lad can get any esteem is through drug-running and being part of a gang. And, as we all know, where there are drugs there are guns and knives. I don't know what Grumpy means by the next generation being less hedonistic and violent, he's talking through his arse if you ask me.
That's 7.5 years with time off for good behaviour.
Yes, and if you divide it by five it's only three years. Horrors!
Or you could just ask somebody who's seen the figures for what actually happens, and they might say something like
last time I checked, about 2000, the mean time served by those released from life sentences was 14 years
Emphasis added.
Atis is three-quarters right (Chris has the other quarter) - if people think murder on the streets is a bigger problem than hypothermia, then people are wrong, and we don't do anyone any favours by telling them they're right.
"Yes, anThat's 7.5 years with time off for good behaviour.Yes, and if you divide it by five it's only three years. Horrors!"
Point originally made..."Murder'll net you 6/7 years with togb if you're unlucky and over eighteen." Which, in fact, is exactly what has happened in this case.
"Or you could just ask somebody who's seen the figures for what actually happens, and they might say something like
last time I checked, about 2000, the mean time served by those released from life sentences was 14 years...Emphasis added."
What makes you think the figures are either reliable or believable?
Apparently the original poster is recollecting some figures from eight years ago concerning people convicted on average presumably 14 years before that.
There is also no info on what the data means, is there an time limit on this figure? Does it include people released from, say, the fifties through to 2000?
Without context it's meaningless.
"Atis is three-quarters right (Chris has the other quarter) - if people think murder on the streets is a bigger problem than hypothermia, then people are wrong, and we don't do anyone any favours by telling them they're right."
You be well advised to do less "telling" or informing people they "are wrong" about the lives they lead, it's offputting, rude and extremely counterproductive.
Ain't no-one needs casually informing by academics (I presume, it's a question of tone) that their peceptions of the everyday lives they lead are invalid.
Also, as if it need be said, banging up shitbags and dealing with hypothermia is hardly an either/or situation.
Never mind accusing the hapless Paddy Garcia of dictator-fantasies why hasn't anyone commented on Eddie Truman's crackpot proposals?
For nestling amid the usual shopping list of demands for legalising this and indoctrinating (sorry, "educating") that, is this crazed assault on civil liberties: "An end to the practice which allows those accused of sex offences the right to cross-examine their alleged victims in court, and for these principles to be extended into civil litigation proceedings."
What? It's a basic right for the accused, who is innocent until proven guilty, to be able to question their accuser.
Garnet Silk: "Eddie Truman's crackpot proposals".
Yes, so crackpot that those accused of rape are prevented from personally cross questioning a victim in England and Wales under the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act.
It doesn't apply in Scotland and we think it should.
What makes you think the figures are either reliable or believable?
Because I know Chris and I know the area he works in.
You be well advised to do less "telling" or informing people they "are wrong" about the lives they lead, it's offputting, rude and extremely counterproductive.
Straw man. I never said anything about telling people they're wrong, let alone telling people they're wrong about their own experience. My argument was that where popular beliefs aren't based on fact we shouldn't endorse them because they're popular.
Also, as if it need be said, banging up shitbags and dealing with hypothermia is hardly an either/or situation.
No, but it may well be a more important/less important one.
There is a broad punitive streak in the British working class - and in this respect the British working class is very much like most other human beings in the last few millennia. Announcing that some toerags are going to get a clip round the ear or a nice long jail stretch may actually give more people more pleasure than announcing that fuel poverty is a thing of the past. What it won't do is do more people more good.
"What makes you think the figures are either reliable or believable? Because I know Chris and I know the area he works in."
So what? It's meaning is still utterly opaque.
""You be well advised to do less "telling" or informing people they "are wrong" about the lives they lead, it's offputting, rude and extremely counterproductive.
Straw man. I never said anything about telling people they're wrong, let alone telling people they're wrong about their own experience."
Well, no, you didn't...not quite..."if people think murder on the streets is a bigger problem than hypothermia, then people are wrong, and we don't do anyone any favours by telling them they're right."
" My argument was that where popular beliefs aren't based on fact we shouldn't endorse them because they're popular."
The arguments are popular because they are based in fact, people aren't imaging hordes of feral youth, they see them in the flesh.
Murder is merely the apex of the pyramid of antisocial behaviour, read the article, it talks of "Violent or otherwise unruly behaviour on the part of youth" not simply the murder rate.
Counting the amount of murders and comparing them to the number of victims of hypothermia is beside the point.
"Also, as if it need be said, banging up shitbags and dealing with hypothermia is hardly an either/or situation.
No, but it may well be a more important/less important one."
Yes. It will be one or the other, granted. That, however, is not the issue, you're presumably not proposing that the state's justice budget be converted wholesale into loft insulation, the comparison is without meaning.
"There is a broad punitive streak in the British working class - and in this respect the British working class is very much like most other human beings in the last few millennia. Announcing that some toerags are going to get a clip round the ear or a nice long jail stretch may actually give more people more pleasure than announcing that fuel poverty is a thing of the past. What it won't do is do more people more good."
Disincentivising antisocial behaviour will work, incentives work everywhere else I fail to see why they wouldn't when it comes to street thuggery, it's not a question of glee at the imprisonment of some knobhead or other, it's about relief at being able to walk down the road after dark knowing that you're reasonably safe, even if you live in a poor area.
It's not the whole solution, we know this...but allowing communities a measure of control over their streets and providing sufficient deterrents to destructive meatheads is a bloody good start...at present the situation appears to quite the opposite.
The arguments are popular because they are based in fact
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were just talking about how popular beliefs don't necessarily reflect reality. Apparently I was completely wrong about that and in fact popular beliefs do reflect reality. Well, that's it then, job done. Hang 'em, flog 'em, send 'em back. Vote Labour.
people aren't imaging hordes of feral youth, they see them in the flesh.
By and large, I think people are seeing kids on the streets and imagining the rest. Most people, most of the time, don't experience 'hordes of feral youth' - even in places like Moss Side (which I see twice a day).
Disincentivising antisocial behaviour will work, incentives work everywhere else I fail to see why they wouldn't when it comes to street thuggery
I think it's a tiny bit more complicated than that. I'm teaching a course on crime prevention at the moment; we cover the 'deterrent' approach, in one week out of ten.
allowing communities a measure of control over their streets and providing sufficient deterrents to destructive meatheads is a bloody good start...at present the situation appears to quite the opposite.
This 'deterring anti-social behaviour' idea hasn't made a lot of headway in the last ten years, by the sound of it. (Look up the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.)
The arguments are popular because they are based in fact
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were just talking about how popular beliefs don't necessarily reflect reality.
You might have been, I wasn't, popular beliefs by and large are entirely grounded in experience, not even our out of control media can effectively manufacture scares without considerably more than a grain of truth to them, witness how (most, the remainder are are the the streetcorner shitbags who you may or not be preaching tolerance for) people interact with minorities, is there any inherent hostility there? Is there fuck, people can't be made to hate what is a. visible and b. not hateful.
Apparently I was completely wrong about that and in fact popular beliefs do reflect reality.
Yes, well spotted. Arsing around apart, do you really think idle theorists have a better grasp of (at least) street realities than the people who actually live there? Are you arrogant enough to believe that popular beliefs do not reflect reality?
Well, that's it then, job done. Hang 'em, flog 'em,
Get them out of people's face will do for me.
send 'em back.
Yeah, that's me, I'm worse than Hitler, quality piece of conflation there, well done.
Vote Labour.
Not any more, I'm not voting for more and more power and wealth to be placed in the hands of class enemies.
people aren't imaging hordes of feral youth, they see them in the flesh.
By and large, I think people are seeing kids on the streets and imagining the rest. Most people, most of the time, don't experience 'hordes of feral youth' - even in places like Moss Side (which I see twice a day).
Walk around it at night. Better still, send your mum out there...on her own...and why not? no need to worry, she'll probably be ok, I bet the statistics are clear on the matter.
Disincentivising antisocial behaviour will work, incentives work everywhere else I fail to see why they wouldn't when it comes to street thuggery
I think it's a tiny bit more complicated than that.
Really? How Olympian.
The causes are, of course, I doubt you can come up with a better interim solution however, not until...whatever it is you believe in comes to pass.
I'm teaching a course on crime prevention at the moment; we cover the 'deterrent' approach, in one week out of ten.
Oh, you're in the trade. Fancy that.
Keep up the good work, you're playing a blinder, simply everyone says so.
allowing communities a measure of control over their streets and providing sufficient deterrents to destructive meatheads is a bloody good start...at present the situation appears to quite the opposite.
This 'deterring anti-social behaviour' idea hasn't made a lot of headway in the last ten years, by the sound of it. (Look up the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.)
Asbos (prsumably the intiative you're talking about) are patently worthless, this ludicrous, comedic assault on human rights essentially
a. Tells scallies not to hang around (stated) places, a power already within the gift of the plod.
b. Instructs it's subjects not to do specific illegal shit on pain of punishment, the fuckers are already not supposed to do illegal shit on pain of punishment.
They erode rights (to a trial, if I'm not mistaken) whilst offering no protection to the community whatsoever. It's a marketeers solution, with one eye on the press and the other on middle class taxpayers who moan about antisocial behaviour but won't stump up taxes for prisons as long as it's confined to the haunts of the lower orders, punters and (especially) scallies have long since seen it for the fraud it is.
Asbos (prsumably the intiative you're talking about) are patently worthless, this ludicrous, comedic assault on human rights essentially
a. Tells scallies not to hang around (stated) places, a power already within the gift of the plod.
The novel part is that they get a prison sentence if they do hang around those places.
b. Instructs it's subjects not to do specific illegal shit on pain of punishment, the fuckers are already not supposed to do illegal shit on pain of punishment.
Not specific illegal shit - what they're barred from doing can be entirely legal and entirely harmless. That's pretty much the point of ASBOs.
The point is, over the last ten years there's a been a whole series of laws against ASB with associated new police powers (and new powers for CSOs). If deterring ASB was going to work, it surely would have started to work by now.
The point is, over the last ten years there's a been a whole series of laws against ASB with associated new police powers (and new powers for CSOs). If deterring ASB was going to work, it surely would have started to work by now.
They don't deter antisocial behaviour, it's a rarerly used and even more rarely enforced figleaf for failed/non existent/ centralised/unaccountable policing and sentencing.
Both yobs and their victims are well aware of this.
From Britain's tube-based freesheet of record....
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=61949&in_page_id=34
"A Ministry of Justice spokeswoman said: "The fact that each order lasts a minimum of two years, they are designed to stop a pattern of behaviour that in some cases had meant years of misery day in and day out for victims.
"One, two or even three breaches over the lifetime of the order is not a sign of failure, not when that order is preventing a daily recurrence of serious abuse.""
"In 2001, 350 ASBOs were made but in 2005, the latest year for which statistics are available, there were 4,060. An average of 66,000* reports of anti-social behaviour are made to authorities each day"
and so on...
*The tip of the iceberg, almost all low scale shitbaggery is never reported because it's a waste of time.
I don't get my ideas about other people's culture fromthe telly
Well, hmm, when you write "I think the sad specimens that parade themselves in the 'Jeremy Kyle' show", it sure is easy to get that impression.
my kids play some of them and I think they are appalling.
Are you as shocked by rugby or the kids' cartoons your generation grew up with? Personally, I think we're mostly less violent in the world, where it counts, when we have opportunities to take a little bit of violence out on in games. That'd explain the fall in violent crime rates.
I don't know what Grumpy means by the next generation being less hedonistic and violent, he's talking through his arse if you ask me.
Done violence. Hedonism: none of your successor generations have yet done anything like the Sexual Rebellion (envy, envy), nor anything like such a cultural orientation around drugs (we're less inclined to worship OR hate them).
You, personally, are STILL hedonistic (I DO think most've you've grown beyond this) - your comments in this thread are all about YOU, and refusing to look from the rest of society's point of view. You have no interest atall even in how your own kids actually interact with the world, how society as a whole works together, they're all there at your personal convenience to worry about and condescend to.
"Hedonism: none of your successor generations have yet done anything like the Sexual Rebellion (envy, envy), nor anything like such a cultural orientation around drugs (we're less inclined to worship OR hate them)"
These were generally the persuits of a small number of the more priviliged middle classes in western Europe and North America. Not the majority anywhere.
Maybe you should bear this in mind when mentioning the 60s and 70s, which presumably is what you mean?
Grumpy by name and Grumpy by nature. Well, i'm bloody Snow White so you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Perhaps you should seek professional help for your unreasonably bad temper. Not getting enough sex maybe? Or just an ignorant gob-shite?
So Grumpy, what's your analysis of teenage violence? Sorry, I forgot, it doesn't exist it's all a media hype. Yeah, and I'm so bloody hedonistic, I'm having a great time, shame you aint.
Just thought of another insult...Shut your naonblahblah the fuck up.
Scratch
1. If you get sentenced to '15 years', you usually stay inside for 7 and a half.
2. If you get sentenced to 'Life with a tariff of 15 years', then you spend 15 years in prison before the Parole Board reviews you for release on licence. Not every review results in a release, then or later.
OK?
Handy guide:
http://www.prisonersfamilieshelpline.org.uk/php/bin/readarticle.php?articlecode=9257
Fair play, I didn't know that.
15 years for booting someone to death for no reason at all does seem much less absurdly lenient that 7.5.
Life should mean life for some. If they wern't let out they wouldn't reoffend would they?
National service doesn't have to be military service. One can be a firefighter, do social and community work, etc. As long as pay, conditions, right to strike join unions are same as the others in the job, what is the problem with it. This exists in most other European countries, what are we so different?
Which "European countries" would they be exactly?
Compulsory national service doing useful social and community work with the same pay, conditions and the right to strike? I'd hazard a bet on that existing nowhere. More like "compulsory national service - for men who don't want to go to the army - on poverty pay without any employment rights, with the most minimal training possible being used to drive down pay and conditions, as strike breakers and generally to save money and hold together drastically underfunded and understaffed public (social and health) services" existing in many EU states.
Sue, Re: The comments about video games encouraging or inciting violent behaviour.
From what I can recall of my research into 'media effects', most reputable studies on the relationship between televisual/videogame exposure and violent behaviour in children have shown no conclusive link between the two. In fact there is as much evidence to suggest that each activity can provide a cathartic effect. In either case the behavioural effects have been seen to be very short lived and have not been substantively related to long term patterns.
-
Scratch:
"popular beliefs by and large are entirely grounded in experience"
I'd have to ask what evidence there is for this? I've come across a lot of racial and sexual stereotyping that has nothing to do with any experience whatsoever. What is different about the 'popular' stereotypes based on age/class?
"not even our out of control media can effectively manufacture scares without considerably more than a grain of truth to them"
War of the Worlds. Anti-aging cream. "Agenda Setting" Media doesn't need to manufacture scares out of nothing, it just has to play on (rational and irrational) fears. You're essentially saying that you don't believe propaganda works. Can't say I agree.
-
"The Mosquito" simply emits sound at a level that is too high in frequency for _most_ adults to hear. Claims of "a high-pitched noise audible only to those aged under 25" is utter nonsense. I feel sorry for any dogs that might have been tied up outside of a newsagent that has one of these installed. For them I can only imagine it's absolute torment. I can see the headline now "ASBO estate pit-bull ravages passer-by". Urg.
The sound the device emits is only a couple of kHz above that of a CRT television's magnets. So if you're one of those people, like me, who is in their 30's and still hears the high pitched noise of the TV that's just gone on standby, you might well be aggravated by a Mosquito.
I am sure that PCLP is right, not all people are equally suspectible to having violent fantasies provoked through playing violent games, that is why it is so hard to produce conclusive evidence of a causal link. I mean some people are sexually aroused through dressing up in womens' clothing but that doesn't mean everyone is. Obviously, violence is encoded into our genes, especially for men, but the role of culture is to restrain it. It's all very well saying these Mosquito devices can cause unpleasant feelings in dogs and innocent children etc, but what's your solution? I don't like the idea of giving the state more control over our lives, but someone has to ensure that people can go about their business and lives without having their heads stamped upon.
I think that has to be the most impressive argument I've yet heard from Scottish nationalist, Eddie Truman, for restricting civil liberties: er the Sassanachs have done it, therefore it is good.
Incidentally, his shopping list of demands was a perfect exemplar of muddled policy. It went all round the houses from hippy-dippy drug legalisation through vintage femi-censoriousness, taking in some populist trash and winding up in the sunlit uplands of shiny-eyed adolescent naivete. What a cacophony!
Grumpy by name and Grumpy by nature. Perhaps you should seek professional help for your unreasonably bad temper. Not getting enough sex maybe?
Not getting enough video games, of course... It's been fun.