Scottish independence and the English left
Posted on Thursday 26 July, 2007
Filed Under Scottish National Party
The reasons why the Scottish National Party are so often derided as Tartan Tories continue to escape me. I’ve always found it more analytically useful to consider them as some species of social democrats.
Let’s put it like this: since Alex Salmond took over at Holyrood last May, I have read nothing to suggest that that the SNP are to the right of the outgoing New Labour-Lib Dem coalition.
The policies currently on offer at their website are mostly the usual motherhood and apple pie stuff served up by all mainstream parties these days, pledging ‘fairer this’ and ‘safer that’.
Even so, it also includes radical-sounding promises to pull Scottish troops out of Iraq and British nuclear weapons out of Scotland.
However, the most distinctive SNP policy is undoubtedly independence for Scotland. In around two weeks’ time, Salmond will publish a white paper outlining plans for a referendum on Scottish independence.
This is not a demand that either a Labour or a Conservative government at Westminster would ever concede. Without Scottish seats, Labour would never form a UK-wide government ever again.
And while you’d think that would be reason enough for the Tories to sanction the divorce, its unionist tradition all but rules that out.
But it is precisely the sort of policy you’d expect the left in England and Wales to favour strongly. Remember that in Scotland, there is both a class dimension to the national question and a national dimension to class politics. Workers and young people tend to be the most in favour of independence.
Yet majority opinion among socialists south of the border is that Scottish independence would ‘break up the historically constituted unity of the British working class’. That’s true, if somewhat abstract.
But it would also break up the historically constituted unity of the British state and give Europe another country with a social democratic centre of political gravity. Much as I’ll hate to live in the permanent Tory fiefdom that would result here, that would be a concrete gain.
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11 Responses to “Scottish independence and the English left”
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Didn’t union-bashing Stagecoach bigot Brian Souter back the SNP in the last elections?
I know it’s a bit glib to just cite unsavoury supporters as an excuse to damn a whole party, but it tells us something, no?
Well … in an age where businessmen can writes cheques to Labour and then stand as Tory parliamentary candidates within weeks, I guess that means little.
Look at some of Labour’s backers – Richard ‘Asian Babes’ Desmond, Bernie Ecclestone, Robert Maxwell …
Well exactly. Are you saying that Labour’s list of unpalatable backers is entirely unconnected from their unpalatable policies over the past decade?
Kudos to Dave for addressing the issue of the troublesome hill settlement to the north, perhaps people can address the issue rather than being fixated on the Labour Party ?
I have posted quite a bit of argument over this issue over at the SU blog. I would recommend anyone interested in the debate to check it out:
http://www.socialistunity.com/?cat=47
On the specific issue of Tartan Tories:
“One of the most successful and enduring myths promoted by labour is that the SNP are Tartan Tories. But Gordon Morgan, again in Scottish Left Review, points to the second preference transfer votes in the Glasgow local elections last month. Among SNP voters just 4.7% of then placed a second preference for the Tories, and just 0.3% for the BNP. In contrast, 13.1% of SNP voters in Glasgow placed a second preference for Solidarity, 7.5% for the SSP, and 14.3% for the Greens. 35% of SNP voters put a second preference for a left of Labour party.
“If we compare this to the transfers from Labour voters, 4.5% expressed a second preference for Solidarity, 2.6% for the SSP and 9.8 % for the Greens.
“On this evidence the SNP’s electoral base is as least as broadly progressive as Labour’s – but the party itself is to the left of Labour.”
This is an important issue for socialists — the break up of the UK allows a discussion of constitutional issues, and more importantly, the kind of society we should live in, what kind of rights we should have, etc.
The Westminster parties will be split on the issue of ending the Union — the Liberals refused to share power with the SNP because they opposed even having a referendum on the issue of independence.
The effect of the civic nationalists can be to steer the political discourse away from the neoliberal agenda. Lets not forget that in Wales, Labour shares power with Plaid Cymru, a social democratic nationalist party, yet at the same time is to campaign for the Union, and the legislative agenda is now to halt NHS privatisation.
This issue isn’t going to go away: there are nationalists in power or sharing it in all of the devolved administrations. The only nation without some form of devolved assembly or parliament is England, and this discrepancy will have to be resolved somehow.
An English parliament, if established, would have to have a fairer voting system — which would allow effective socialist intervention — and would strengthen the civic national identity of people living in England. So perhaps England would not be a Tory fiefdom, but would incentivise socialists to work together (no guarantees it would result in unity, though!).
Bloggers who support the establishment of an English Parliament should join the Witanagemot Club (http://www.toque.co.uk/witan/) — sadly socialists are under-represented, I hope that this will be rectified.
By the way, you can watch an interesting debate at the launch of the book “Is there a Scottish Road to Socialism” here: http://scottishcommunists.org.uk/media/?page=scotland_socialism_independence
Dashed bad show ignoring Plaid Cymru. After all their base is as ‘progressive as that of the labour party every bit as much as is the SNP’s. And they act just like Tories when in office – just like the SNP and labour.
The only reason why the SNP appears to be to the left of Labour is that the SNP hasn’t actually had to run anything, except Angus Council and the like. We’ll see how they do now they have to make fairly big decisions.
I predict that they will move spending away from Glasgow and the central belt, where the greatest need will be, and increase it in the relatively wealthy north east where their main support is.
They have no strategic idea about tackling inequality and poverty in communities. They are closing down the housing and regeneration agency, Communities Scotland. Nobody knows what they’re going to do about equality and human rights.
Their health policy for the election was the populist one of stopping A&E realignment in the face of a strategic approach – although they are only going to stop A&E realignment in North Lanarkshire and Ayrshire, nowhere else.
And Brian Souter got his money’s worth – the SNP went into the election with a policy of re-regulating public transport. In steps the homophobic millionnaire with his moneybags – and suddenly, no sign of public transport re-regulation in the manifesto. They are resisting investment in a tram system for Edinburgh, though, but Labour – with only one seat less, remember – has carried the day in Parliament.
The SNP can be bought and sold for some wee bit hill and glen.
For some reason lefties outside Scotland think there is something inherently progressive about the separation argument. There is not. I can only assume you feel it’s attractive because it carries with it the prospect of “breaking up” the British state. Maybe – but you’ll end up with an island where we’re all suddenly foreigners in parts of what was our own country, with Scotland turning into another Latvia or whatever, sullenly dependent on its perma-tory southern neighbour, and England and Wales under permanent Tory rule and essentialy the 51st state.
You thnk things are bad now? Wait for it – you might get what you wish for.
The SNP are like the Lib-Dems in that their policies vary dramatically depending on who they’re trying to win votes from. In Glasgow, it’s all pretty left-of-centre, but in Tory areas, or their green welly heartlands in Perthshire, they’re often to the right of Attila the Hun.
Their only consistent tactic is to suggest that England is the benificiary from the Union, when in reality, it’s the other way round.
AFAICT their economic policies are based on EU-era Irish neo-liberalism. Their website promises tax cuts via “efficiency savings”, removal of “red tape”, breaks for small business, all that kind of stuff.
Scottish politics also still has a faint sectarian dimension – my mother told me as a kid that SNP stood for “Scotland Needs Protestants” – Labour, of course, play the green card by continuing to support separate schools, a tactic which has won it the central-belt Catholic vote since before the war.
There are some positives – they’re anti-nuclear, and want to increase health and education spending. I’d see them as being nearer to One Nation Tories than any kind of Socialism, though.
Disclaimer: I don’t live in Scotland any more
Mmm ! In this part of Wales we had to live with the Nats in Control of the Council for a number of years. Talked left, voted right. After all what is socialist about closeing English Language schools, drastically curtailing carers,and social services, developement asistance etc, and of course the vast increase of “non-jobs” for the boyo’s.
Councillors “allowances” went north faster than a speeding bullet.
Their (the Nats) proud boast was that in Caerphilly there would be no new English medium schools.
No, we have had the Nats, and we don’t want them again.
I am afraid that this coalation was designed to maintain Labour in power at all costs, I fear we will pay a heavy price for this oportunism.
As a poster points out our people in the Scots Lowlands, or the Welsh Valleys will suffer so that the Nationalists can play their games.
Incidently who put the B***H Thatcher into power in 1979 – Or are the Nationalists still trying to rewrite history on that ?
It’s started.
Under Labour, a programme was put in place to take Scottish Executive jobs out of the full-employment and overheated Edinburgh jobs market and send them to parts of Scotland where they could make a difference. Obviously it wasn’t popular in Edinburgh, becuse people in existing agencies were not happy about moving to or commuting to the east end of Glasgow, or Inverness, or the highlands and islands. Bt it was fair and emphasised that these jobs were for Scotland. There was a presumption that new jobs would go outside the capital.
The SNP are stopping this.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1579970.0.0.php
Sixty new jobs will be created in Edinburgh. They could go anywhere, but they’re going to the capital.