It's now being reported on the BBC and the Guardian - it's definitely John!

Game on! Rock 'n' roll! Wooooo ...

Right. Time to get the kids.

BBC latest news thingy:
"John McDonnell says Michael Meacher will stand aside in Labour contest. More soon."

Guardian:
"Brown to face challenge from McDonnell"

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/story/0,,2079253,00.html

A patsy will be useful to Brown.
As last nights debate showed

Pleased to hear on Radio 4 that more time was given (in the first 5 minutes of PM anyway) to a "Chris Tarrant Tiswas moment" and his arrest. The BBC.....

He's clearly nowhere near the 44/45 names he needs though - as the appeal sounded rather desperate.

A pity, I'd like to see him enter.

I just watch the news conference on BBC 24. The BBC are now trying to spin it as a "possible" contest claiming that it is "not clear" that John has enough nominations. This is because John stressed the need for MPs to vote for him to ensure a contest and I suspect they are questioning whether all of Meacher's supporters will indeed vote for John.

Yes! Get elected, get a life.
Comrades we are on the way!!!!

Saying he is "nowhere near" is bollocks. He and Meacher both stressed that between them they have the required nominations. Even if John does not get all of Meacher's support, this indicates that indeed he is very close - not "nowhere near". Nice try.....

Phew - does that mean we can stop arguing about Meacher now?

Andy,

I guess... what a waste of time, eh?

Channel 5 did a hatchet job. A "little known MP" is challenging Brown. Brown may face "one more obstacle". Instead of showing the press conference they simply had one of their reporters giving his opinion that they didn't "seem confident" that they had enough support. More bollocks and spin as both John and Michael clearly stated they had enough at the press conference. So it begins....

TWP dont watch the news, what do you expect, blogs are much more upbeat.

Less than 10 seconds on the BBC 6pm news. Reported as "Michael Meacher Stands Down" and again the spin tried to claim that John does not have enough support.

Have no doubt - this is a political earthquake.

It's a vindication of our strategy of building a grassroots movement outside the Westminster Bubble, rather than doing backroom deals with MPs from day one. Because of the question of nominations, we had to play the parliamentary game in the end - and we played it to our advantage.

This is the most important campaign for the left for a quarter of a century. For the first time in years, there is a real prospect of socialist ideas being put back on the agenda - and the left once again becoming a force to be reckoned with.

We now all need to do our bit to get John on the ballot paper.

However, bear in mind this. The establishment will do all they can to destroy us. At first, they will do what they did before - belittle us and ignore us - as a "token" campaign etc. If we become a threat, they will throw everything they have at us.

So, be prepared for a difficult but very exciting few weeks.

And remember, this is a victory for all of us. The only reason we are where we are is because of a growing grassroots movement that we've all tried to build. Let's all unite - and give the establishment a run for their money.

"Have no doubt - this is a political earthquake."

Is this satire?

McD has 24 MPs

Sense of perspective called for, I think. Maybe there will be a left reformist candidate on the ballot paper. Or maybe not. And even if there is, he is going to get thrashed.

Of course it's good news. But that such a minor achievement can be described as the most positive development for the left - at least in England - for at least five years speaks volumes.

No offence Tim, but I'm in a better position to know how many MPs he's got and you're not even close!

Of course it's going to be a challenge to get on that ballot paper - but it's well within reach. There's a real demand for a democratic contest and healthy debate.

I hope you can support that at least, Tim.

Yeah, thanks for that vote of confidence Dave. Very constructive.

A figure between 24 and 44 is not an earthquake.
However I do agree it will be better for a debate.
Watching Brown demolish a PIRA supporter will increase his popularity.

Owen
Not meant to be a trick question - but what do you mean by 'the establishment'? Do you mean the Labour Party leadership or the establishment more widely? Does it include the 'bourgeoisie'? 'The establishment' always seems a little evasive and unsatisfactory.

Anyway, this is good news.

Sorry, clumsy shorthand for the ruling class - big business, the state bureaucracy, the capitalist media, the New Labour leadership, the White House, etc

Quite a list of enemies, but hey, I've always been one for a challenge.

I assume 'the establishment' is primarily the Labour Party leadership in cahoots with the capitalist media.

Although Owen is clearly feeling optimistic, I imagine he'll accept that the Duke of Edinburgh probably won't be mobilising the wider forces of reaction just yet.

I don't imagine he'll call in the tanks until John's safely settled into No. 10, David

;)

Ah, we cross-posted but I was almost right.

Owen - am I to assume that the constructive course of action is to whip up hysteria about getting 24 MPs, and just 9% of Labour Party members supporting what is a very soft left programme put forward by John McD. The day you stop wasting your time in the shell that used to be the Labour Party and start building a real alternative will be a day Dave can mark down as a 'positive development for the left'.

I would argue there have been a few positive developments for the left over the past 5 years, certainly internationally with the rise of radical movements in Latin America and new workers formations in Germany, Brazil and (soon) Belgium. In Britain we have had the launch and steady progress of the CNWP, and the successes of the militant leaderships of the RMT and PCS unions. It's not a great deal, but some backbench MP getting nominations off 24 other backbench MPs certainly does not surpass them.

Let's get things in perspective here - all that has happened today is an opportunistic conspiracy theorist nut has withdrawn.

What are some of you people on !!!!! Right, so Owen's "wasting his time" on a grassroots campaign which now has resulted in a left-winger as the only man standing against the Big Brown Juggernaut.Of course it's an earthquake.Reid, Miliband, Clarke, all gone.
Still, suspect some of you are upset that we have proved you wrong.You just don't seem to get it that if John gets on the ballot about 180,000 Labour members get to vote, thousands of tradeunionists, socialist societies, Labour clubs .And, Dave,he will not "get thrashed." I would expect John to get at least 25 per cent . That,by any standards, is a result.
We have had THIRTEEN YEARS with no left voice getting mainstream coverage. And, yes, the media are horrified. Channel 4 News was fair but the BBC News and ITN were predictably dismissive.
Owen's right, they will throw EVERYTHING they have now. It won't be an easy ride. So I would expect comrades to be supportive.

I hope John wins, I really do. I would also hope comrades in the Labour Party will draw the necessary conclusions if he doesn't do well.

Yeah, Jim, maybe you're right. How about I throw my lot in with the hundred or so irrelevant sects out there with no basis in the labour movement, squabbling over issues which are of no interest to working class people, and standing in elections and getting 0.01% of the vote.

I'd suggest that your lot should "draw the necessary conclusions" from the local elections but that would be crowing, wouldn't it?

C'mon JMD - you can do it!

1. The CNWP now has over 2,500 supporters, with very significant numbers of those not members of the Socialist Party or irrelevant sects. Many are union and community activists. Progress is slow, but we're not going to put the cart before the horse and declare a party until there is significant support for the idea. People have been stung before with the Socialist Labour Party, the Socialist Alliance and Respect and are rightfully wary of the CNWP ending up like them.

2. The SP does have a considerable basis in the labour movement, particularly in the PCS and UNISON but in all other major unions as well. Our significant presence on the steering committee of the Shop Stewards Network (an RMT initiative, not set up by us, so you can't cast aspersions...) also points to our significant strength in workplaces. In NHS campaigns we have been instrumental also.

3. Accusing the non-Labour left of squabbling over issues of no interest to working class people is abit rich coming from someone who has participated in lengthy debates over McDonnell/Meacher/Cruddas over the past few months, something which frankly interests very few people. I find it odd you accuse us of this, as generally we are the ones organising the NHS campaigns, anti-academies campaigns, anti-council house sell off campaigns etc. We discuss with our comrades on the left certainly, but we don't spend all day discussing the finer points of Engels views on boiled eggs and splitting on the key sunny side up/down question as many in the Labour Party seem to think we do.

4. Our work is only rarely electoral, as opposed to you lot, who seem to obsess over elections of one type or another to the exclusion of everything else. I think we actually polled over 4% in every seat in England we stood, Solidarity in Scotland established themselves as the only significant left force and in Wales our low percentage score was due partly to the difficulties of a small party campaigning in such a large electoral region and partly due to the teeming mass of left candidates on the ballot paper. We do make progress of an unseen type (by people just looking at raw numbers of votes) in elections - an opportunity to build, recruit, raise our profile, develop comrades through action, argument etc.

"Solidarity in Scotland established themselves as the only significant left force "

Really?

CNWP has 2500 supporters. Not exactly tectonic plate-hifting stuff, is it???? My own constituency has 353 members. And that's an all-time low.
Solidarity "the only significant left force." ???????? Unbelievable, delusional rubbish.

More votes than the other left parties put together. The former socialists of the SSP rightly consigned to the dustbin of history, finishing behind the SLP. Solidarity are the only show in town north of the border.

Jim Lowe,

I find that it funny - no, I find it poetically ironic (if such irony exists) - that a party, the SPEW, which claims - and has been claiming for the last 20 years - that the Labour Party is "withering on the vine" (I think these are the very words used by the Taaffites in their internal document back in the day) has lost a council seat to the very Party it claims to have replaced. In a student/minority ethnic ward, at that!

I'm afraid the SP is only party to have withered on the vine these last two decades. Sure, a blow - and a considerable one, indeed- has been dealt to the Labour Left and, more generally, the Labour Party by the NuLab clique, but the Labour is still (and will always be) the best bet around for any decent Socialist who truly cares about the lot of working-class.

So, while you carry on with your Campaign for a Glorified Student Union (or whatever it's called) remember that some people still do have what it takes to fight for a Socialist Labour Party.

Surely, if you'd take a second to look at things, the task of reclaiming an already existing worker's party - one with considerable links to the T.U. movement, at that - must seem far easier than to re-build an entire Proletarian organisation. Just think about it, will you!?!

And, I suppose Jim, Solidarity will reach new heights when the tapes of Tommys confession are proved to be fakes?

The way this mans ego and deception betrayed a chance at power is remarkable.
And yet he still has some support.

Jim you need to unhook yourself from that drip feed. 200 SP members, some far left nutters and a video from Ricky Tomlinson isnt going to do it for anybody. Talk about the law of diminishing returns.

Good luck to McDonnell. I think it will be good for the left if he gets to stand. If he does then the oportunity should be used to raise socialist ideas with wider layers of people, not for the labour and non labour left to bait each other.

First of all, petty sectarianism concerning the acronym of the full name of the SP (our student comrades working in Socialist Students get similar side-splitting snipes).

Secondly, we do not claim to have 'replaced' the Labour Party - if we had, there wouldn;t be any need for the CNWP.

As for the council seat in Coventry, a combination of factors contributed to us narrowly losing that seat. Fear of Tory revival increased the Labour vote (our vote held up), despite there being a great deal of mobility in and out of the ward, which resulted in a lot of our previous voters not living in the ward anymore, and new residents not really knowing us as the long standing residents do and so went for Labour.

Labour, in terms of active internal party life and engagement in campaigns OUTSIDE of the party, has long since withered. The activity in local Labour Parties where I am (even where they have an MP and minority control of a city council) is non-existent. There is little to no internal party democracy in the Labour Party.

We can't reclaim an already existing workers party because there isn't one. We need to build a new one. Not an easy task, but it has to be done.

Not sure what the drip feed crack was about, but having attended the CNWP conference on Saturday I can tell you there was a significant layer of (non-SP) trade unionists and community activists who are now coming on board. We see this also in Devon.

And Tim, "The way this mans ego and deception betrayed a chance at power is remarkable." - if the chance at power was in coalition with the neo-liberal Tartan Tories, Solidarity wouldn;t have taken it- would you be so unprincipled as to enter a cuts government just to get a sniff of power? The idea that Solidarity members were somehow responsible for what happened is a joke - Certain ex-comrades in the SSP forgot the ABC of class politics - when a socialist is fighting a capitalist like Murdoch, you back the socialist every time. Scottish voters showed what they thought of the SSP quite clearly I think anyway.

Also Tim, I would shy away from continuing your bitter comments about Tommy, which seem to verge on the libellous (if I'm being generous).

So you all hate Meacher, the centre-leftist? Yeah, so do I. But where does this myth that McDonnell is any more left than him come from?

Who wants the basic state pension at £114 and who wants it at £119? That's right, McDonnell and then Meacher. On NMW, its £7.50 (McDonnell) and £7 (Meacher), and, er, European Decency Threshold
a little (pennies) higher!

Looking through their programmes in detail, you'll notice how similar they are. So if you were cursing the heretic Meacher, you’ve really got to do the same for McDonnell. I mean, you're not hypocrites are you, you LP types?

And the spin. Even Brown yesterday thought it politic to claim he distanced himself from spin.

But McDonnell - has he got the numbers or not?

So Owen, some of the readers here are socialists so less of politico 'No offence Tim, but I'm in a better position to know how many MPs he's got and you're not even close!' If you have a number - state it.

Or are you in training to be the Alistair Campbell in a fantasy McDonnell administration.

More on my blog (midnite-ish) on why no Left should vote for McD.

for clarity - The European Decency Threshold is a (small amount) higher than the McD demand

Oh by the way, Jim L, I live in Belgium at the moment - soon to move to London though - and as, far as I can see, the Belgian CNWP (CAP, if I am not wrong) seems to be dead in the water. The SP.a (Belgian Left) is stronger than ever though!

Meant to say : "SP.a-Rood faction (Belgian Labour Left)" etc.

You are ridiculous SouthPaw,

Some sad 40something "trot", indeed - though Trotsky would no doubt turn in his grave if he knew about your pathetic remarks.

You know full well what the problems of a Meacher candidacy would have been. So don't act even more stupid than you actually are!

"when a socialist is fighting a capitalist like Murdoch, you back the socialist every time."

What if the capitalist is telling the truth and the socialist has put his comrades in a position where he expects them to perjure themselves?

Southpawpunch works in PR.

There's nothing more to be said on the matter.

And tim is a tedious bore who loves to make libellious comments about Galloway (and Sheridan from time to time, what is it with him and Scots?)

More importantly, good news about John Mc. Seeing him on the TV, he comes across very well. The big thing now is to get him on the ballot paper. I take the point about the perspective, the Labour left is weak etc but Livingstone didn't get on the ballot in 1992 nor 1994 so if John Mc does make it, it will be an advance (though a small one).

Tim isn't a 'tedious bore'. He gets to the essence of your bullshit in a fashion which is most convivial - you thick twat.

"But where does this myth that McDonnell is any more left than him come from?"

Such a peculiar question. Let me count the ways.

A long time ago JMcD was one of the tiny number of prominent Labour figures who would stand on a stage and demand the release of the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4. I know because I helped organise the east London meetings.

He has always been in favour of British withdrawal from Ireland. Never an easy thing to do in an organisation as besotted with imperialism as the British Labour Party.

He is a strong supporter of Hands Off Venezuela and the Bolivarian revolution.

He has supported every industrial action I can think of.

He didn't think the Miners'Strike was a bad idea and he voted against the war in Iraq. None of the other candidates in these elections have a record that stands comparison.

What emerges from his difficulty in getting support is the weakness of the Labour left. That is a problem for all of us because it's an indicator of where the class struggle is at in Britain.

Jim Lowe - will Tommy Sheridan be suing the papers for libel for publishing last weekend that lothians police have enough evidence to arrest him for perjury?

And I have decided that Southpawpunch is not even intending that we take him seriously, I think he is a situationist art work parodying the left.

@Liam

My question is very apt. I’ve listed the ways they’re similar, even how Meacher can be more left. Let’s see you take that apart.

You can cherry pick obscure issues (in the sense of present day Britain) e.g. miners, Venezuela. How long have the Birmingham 6 been out (I wouldn’t be surprised if Blair signed the petition)? I’ll cherry pick mainline issues.

Which is more left?

‘We should not merely reverse these market downsides, but celebrate a strong revival of the public sector and expand it in areas such as free law centres, affordable housing and rail travel’ - Meacher

‘The end to privatisation of public services’ – McDonnell

One appears to be calling for renationalisation (Meacher), the other for status quo (McDonnell). Of course, neither would do either.

And as for a supposed Fourth Internationalist, like you, signing up for such dishwater - give us our flag back.

@Owen

My PR work today including health awareness matters for people with severe learning difficulties. You’re a capitalist politician's assistant, i.e. you don’t even do it for the money. There’s little lower not living in ponds.

@Mikael

You really are an idiot. As in ‘don’t waste words on someone without arguments.’

-

Lefts, no vote for McDonnell.

Southpawpunch, you are pathetic.Paid by MI5 or what??????

Southpawpunch, you are pathetic

Wow, that certainly is a persuasive counter-argument. I'm glad socialists don't have to resort to being childish when they encounter someone with a difference of opinion.

Paid by MI5 or what??????

It's been years since MI5 were interested in the left, well mid-90's, why on earth would they be paying someone to leave comments on a website?

My PR work today including health awareness matters for people with severe learning difficulties. You’re a capitalist politician's assistant, i.e. you don’t even do it for the money. There’s little lower not living in ponds.

I feel like such a spanner. Here we all are, a bunch of stereotypically humourless lefties laying into Southpawpunch without realising he is, in fact, satire (albeit not very subtle satire).

Can't wait to read the hatchet job against John. Southpaw obviously thinks we're on the edge of our seats - he's even left his impatient readers a little note informing us that his work of genius has been postponed for an hour. I was going to get an early night, but fuck that!

What are his faults then, Southpaw? Failure to establish communism in Hayes & Harlington in his ten years as an MP? No mention of the creation of a workers' militia in his manifesto? Maybe he was once sighted talking to someone who had once walked past the sister of a man whose fiance's second cousin twice-removed once had a chat with the father of a millionnaire businessmen?

Fucking hell, you're right. John's somewhere to the right of Oswald Mosley! Trust me to get involved in a campaign to elect an ultra-fascist. Clumsy.

I do satire sometimes, but not tonight, it's too serious. I see you do mad exaggeration.

No I'm not expecting McDonnell to have done any of the above. How about just a few Bennite measures - call for council houses to be built, renationalise the railways, give students grants again. Did I say Bennite, I could also mean Wilsonite from the above list.

I think he probably does mean well. A long time ago I gave to a fund he set up when the Tory MP (Terry Dicks?) sued him. He even called me a a 'good bloke' when I met him at the Assoc of London Government.

But his programme stinks. Answer the question - how is it anymore left than Meacher's, who you all rightly castigate for his fake leftness?

Blimey, Meacher's withdrawal certainly seems to have ushered forth a frenzy of sectarian bile. Good to know where Southpaw and co stands. I thought Jim Lowe was making some reasonable points there for a while (though I wouldn't necessarily share them), until he started dribbling on about his admiration for Sheridan's personality-cult sect (what is it about Trots and their slavering infatuation with Scottish alpha-males?). Southpaw's just being petty.

I don't agree with Owen that this is the biggest advance for the left for 25 years - that's way over the top (we need to actually, like, win struggles on the ground to do that), but it's still a progressive opportunity. Even John Rees has said that an advance for one part of the left advances the rest of the left; it's a shame his camp followers can't see that.

And it's easy to attack the Labour party's undemocratic structures - re the need to get 44 MPs names etc - when your own group doesn't have a parliamentary party, so we don't know how democratic it would be. For example, Respect's Parliamentary Party consists of one MP, known for his prolonged absences from both parliament and his own consitutuency, so you're setting the bar high there.

And this is the problem. Perhaps if the non-Labour left had come up with a viable alternative in the 13 years since Blair seized control of Labour then they'd have a better case, but they've not done well enough, not convinced enough new people, however much you may spin "we got five per cent in selected areas" as some kind of sign of the inexorable march of Ver Workers?

To choose this moment to start taking puerile potshots at one of the most articulate and progressive members of parliament there is, is profoundly depressing.

"And as for a supposed Fourth Internationalist, like you, signing up for such dishwater - give us our flag back."

I don't care what anybody else says, that is a good fucking line. ;-) (Especially the bit in bold). Wish I'd wrote it.

Owen,

Whatever else, I think Southpaw scored a direct hit on you. Why else would you do a pale imitation of a Daily Mail leader-writer by way of a response?

I don't imagine [the Duke of Edinburgh will] call in the tanks until John's safely settled into No. 10, David
;)

Well, no. Mind you, McDonnell might be wise to avoid driving through any tunnels for the forseeable future. ;)

"His programme stinks." SouthpawPunch,speaking as an authentic left-handed socialist,I find your "line" incomprehensible, offensive and puerile.Owen,ignore these ultra-left idiots and get on with geting John on the ballot.....

Unsurprisingly I agree with Susan, Southpaw is being an idiot.
No one has ever said Michaels policies differed from John, in fact a lot of us made much of the fact that they were including a lot of the same things like building new council houses, re-nationalisation of the railways, public services not private profit etc etc etc.

What the difference is, is John has been consistent on all of these issues where as Michael hasn't with his homes and vote for the war and didn't have the grassroots support - all of which is irrelevant now because Meacher has withdrawn and is being very supportive now and gave a good speech endorsing John.

Southpaw is just being a twat - all of this is quite clear - what those thousands of members you have(!) Should now do is join the labour party to vote for John - they have until the 1st June to be eligble to vote. We have managed to unite the left in the labour party how about you lot knock your heads together try and get an ounce of sense and get behind the best chance the left has had for years.

Southpaw if we'd have been advocating a vote for meacher you'd have been baying for our blood (rightly) because of his vote for the war - now all of a sudden there's no difference between him and mcd??

Whilst not quite a political earthquake yet its at least a tremor the left have had more airtime this last week thru john than they've had for years.
(Political airtime not tosh from big bruv or sex scandals)

When we get on the ballot paper that's when the tremor turns into an earthquake.

Dave stop being such a pesimistic grump - you know as well as I do that this is a major achievement for the left and yes that doesn't say much for how the left has been over the last few years but that's the position were in - so will you all shut your nonsensical whinging and get lobbying!

Thank goodness it's not Meacher. Now things start getting interesting.

But I don't think an earthquake is on the agenda. The left is as weak as it's ever been, in the country and in the Labour Party. (And, as SPP correctly points out, McD isn't all that left - although SPP is wrong (and genuinely 'ultra-left') to call for abstention on that basis.) Left-wing policies don't getting a hearing, in the media, in the unions or in the party; left-wing groups and individuals don't get a sympathetic hearing from the Labour leadership; and neither the party membership nor the unions have any means of bringing their influence to bear on the leadership.

It's a bad situation for the Left, and people need to be very clear about how much of it the McDonnell campaign can change. In particular, those of us who don't believe McDonnell can win (hi Dave!) need to think about what the people mobilised by the campaign are going to be able to do after June. My worry about Owen's hyperbole is that a lot of people are just going to be marched up to the top of the hill and marched down again.

join the labour party to vote for John - they have until the 1st June to be eligble to vote

I couldn't, I really couldn't. Not because I'm a Blair-loathing, Green-voting libertarian Marxist, but because I know I'd get junk mail from the party forever after. Dear former supporter... My blood pressure doesn't need that.

Where's your argument, SouthPaw?

The fact that you had to dismiss my (quite justifiable) claims in such a sad fashion clearly indicates that you lost your last two brain-cells at the pub last night.

Again, don't act more stupid than you are...

Can I just re-iterate. Re-join Labour ( I don't get any junk mail and there's a link on my blog) and vote for John. Lobby MPs today and tomorrow. We have just 48 hours to turn this round....It could be years before we get another chance.

What happened to the idea of Brown loaning some supporters to John? It was mentioned in jest at the Fabian bash but this might be the only way to do it if hitherto non-aligned MPs are too scared to nominate JM for fear of retribution under a Brown govt.

I have added a clip and the full link to John's interview with Peter Tatchell on my blog from 18 Doughty Street. It's a pretty good overview of his policies so you may want to check it out. Just click on my name below and it is the first post.

What happened to the idea of Brown loaning some supporters to John?

Brown doesn't want a contest so that's not going to happen. Despite having won the allegiance of two-thirds of the PLP, he is continuing to ring round MPs to ask them to nominate him.

Good luck to John McDonnell in trying to get onto the ballot paper. But people need to get real - beating Meacher is not an 'earthquake' and as Andy has pointed out, even if McDonnell does make it onto the paper, he cannot win and it is hyperbole to suggest that he could. What his campaign could do however is help to expose Brown's commitment to the occupation in Iraq and attacks on public sector pay - and put pressure on Brown to withdraw the troops now. The Stop the War Coalition are planning to organise lobbies and protests of Brown over the coming weeks which everyone should support.

However people inside the Labour Party who regard themselves as socialists need to think hard about the future should McDonnell not even get onto the ballot paper. Owen's argument that the only thing outside the Labour Party to the Left are a 'hundred or so irrelevant sects out there with no basis in the labour movement, squabbling over issues which are of no interest to working class people, and standing in elections and getting 0.01% of the vote' is frankly a ridiculous analysis now that Respect has only been going for three years and yet now has one MP and over twenty councillors - and gets an average of 15% when it stands in council elections. The Green Party also picked up new councillors from Labour in the recent elections.

There is a serious radical left alternative to New Labour emerging slowly and surely in British politics - and to simply pretend Respect doesn't exist is just an ugly mixture of arrogance and sectarianism.

"beating Meacher is not an 'earthquake'"

I don't think that the "earthquake" they had inn mind really. I think that the term in question was used to describe the great importance of having just one - one and only one - Left-wing candidate participating in the Leadership election.

The only one who's used the term "earthquake" in relation to Meacher's "defeat" - which will soon be his victory, as he too would benefit from a McDonnell leadership campaign/triumph - is you (at least along this thread), I'm afraid!

Respect has only been going for three years and yet now has one MP and over twenty councillors

Show working. I make it 11 in Tower Hamlets, 3 in Newham, 2 in Birmingham and one each in Preston and Bolsover, for a total of 18.

Care to elaborate on your "McDonnell's programme stinks" comment too, while we're at it

Being asked to join the LP just to vote for John reminds me of the good advice: "remember a dog is for life and not just for Christmas"

The truth is snowball, Respect is not slowly emerging as a radical left alternative to New labour. I have spoken to activists around the country who tell me that in their area Respect is just the SWP. To coin a Cliffism, most activsits "wouldn't touch it with a barge".

There is a paradox that Respect does show that a left alternative could have been built, but respect also formed an obstacle that prevented the forces that could have created that left from combining. That is the bureaucratic legacy of the SWP.

With the Tories resurgent, the Green Party having consolidated their support, Labour under a new leader (Gordon Brown), and Sheridans perjury having fucked the Scots left, the opportunity has temporarily passed beyond our reach.

I don't want to rain on mcDonnell's parade, so let us hope that he does get as good a result as some here are predicting, maybe 20%.

That would be an excellent indication that there is opposition to New labour, but, and it is a big but, it still leaves the Labour left isolated, without any obvious strategy that could ever be successful, and with many many activists in the peace movements, pensioner movement, and even trade unions, etc hating labour's guts.

is Owen right that outside the labour party there is just squabbling sects? Well the LP has 197000 members (if we are generous and accept their own estimate), and someone in Socialist Appeal told me that up to 5000 may have rejoined recently. From reading the comments on Osler's blog over the last few weeks I can certainly see that WITHIN the labour party there are squabling sectarians.

But the trade unions have at least 6 million members. So perhaps there is something outside labour after all.

The task is for us all to stop squabbling, and et on with the serious but mundane task of building political opposition to neo-liberalism in the area where our clas still does have power and infleunce. In the unions and the workplaces, where we should always have been looking.

[RESPECT]

11 in Tower Hamlets, 3 in Newham, 2 in Birmingham and one each in Preston and Bolsover, for a total of 18

I've posted a roundup and analysis of the council results for RESPECT, the Greens and the BNP on my blog. All corrections welcomedgrudgingly accepted.

Andy N. - Just to respond to your comments: "Jim Lowe - will Tommy Sheridan be suing the papers for libel for publishing last weekend that lothians police have enough evidence to arrest him for perjury?"

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a newspaper reporting the supposed actions of the police does not constitute libel against Tommy.

You also seem to be a funny kind of Marxist if you seem to view the capitalist media, in the run up to elections, will simply report the news and not stoop to printing scurrilous stories against prominent figures on the left. And the state (represented in this instance by the police) as independent arbiters of justice? I prescribe you a careful reading of 'The State and Revolution'.

It's clear why you have felt the need to weigh in against Tommy and Solidarity, so utterly besotted you seem to be with the bourgeois moralist ex-socialist SSP. If the other object of your affections at the moment, Jon Cruddas (who was Blair's PPS and wants to reduce the union block vote, so the Labour left aren't desperate in any way to endorse a deputy leadership candidate, however un-leftwing) moved north of the border and joined the McCombes, Fox and Kane crazy gang, I'm sure your world would be complete.

Oh and SouthPawPunch, at the risk of confirming your view that the SP is reformist, don't show up the non-Labour left with the nonsense you're coming out with, McDonnell might not have a cat in hells chance of getting a respectable vote, but he is a socialist and we should support him. Provided he and his followers wake up at the end of the campaign and leave the Labour Party.

"I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a newspaper reporting the supposed actions of the police does not constitute libel against Tommy. "

The press have repeated the initial charge against Sheridan,plus accused him of perjury, and the MacNeilage tape if it is as Tommy claims, a fake, would costitute the most remarkable libel.
Yet it is not a fake Jim.
Or Tommy would sue and be a very,very, rich man.

Respect has only been going for three years and yet now has one MP

Likely to be zero MPs once Galloway (who was already an MP for a different party) stands down, unless Salma Yaqoob wins in Birmingham.

Salma wont stand for Respect.

Anyone know who this Will is? Even looking at his site, he doesn't say what party he supports (though his admiration for Hitches gives a clue as to where he is coming from). He comes across as some kind of "cyber-warrior" that is calling people lots of rude words, eg "thick twat" when I imagine that face to face he wouldn't say a dicky bird.

Pray tell Tim where Tommy is supposed to get the money from to launch more legal action - he's broke.

Oh and as for McNeilage, regardless of whether the tape is a fake or not (you know what I think and I can guess what you think), it doesn't say much for McNeilage himself - either he's a stooge for whatever forces faked the tape or he betrayed the man who dragged him, a junkie, out of the gutter and who, when he got married, made him his best man.

McNeilage either way sums up the way the SSP have gone - not a viable political force but the Stop Sheridan Party - vicious and sectarian. But finished as well.