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	<title>Comments on: 1976: Britain on the brink of a military coup?</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/</link>
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		<title>By: Chris Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5206</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5206</guid>
		<description>Maybe so, but what does this:

&quot;a scenario in which a Labour government, acceding to trade union and other militant demands, radicalised its policies against the private sector and the UK&#039;s Nato commitments.&quot;

have to do with the IRA? Why were they thinking about what they&#039;d do if a left-wing Labour government came to power? Surely anything other than giving it their unswerving loyalty would be a violation of their mission.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe so, but what does this:</p>
<p>&#8220;a scenario in which a Labour government, acceding to trade union and other militant demands, radicalised its policies against the private sector and the UK&#8217;s Nato commitments.&#8221;</p>
<p>have to do with the IRA? Why were they thinking about what they&#8217;d do if a left-wing Labour government came to power? Surely anything other than giving it their unswerving loyalty would be a violation of their mission.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5205</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5205</guid>
		<description>It certainly is. I would argue that &#039;5 has a statutory duty to plan for the consequences of an attempt to sabotage the London water supply.

I see no evidence whatsoever in the text that they planned to perpetrate this. In fact, the last paragraph quotes the source text as saying the IRA might do such things.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly is. I would argue that &#8217;5 has a statutory duty to plan for the consequences of an attempt to sabotage the London water supply.</p>
<p>I see no evidence whatsoever in the text that they planned to perpetrate this. In fact, the last paragraph quotes the source text as saying the IRA might do such things.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5204</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5204</guid>
		<description>Is it legal for MI5 to plan stuff like that?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it legal for MI5 to plan stuff like that?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5203</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 19:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5203</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;In the final days of the Wilson era, MI5 drafted a contingency paper based on a scenario in which a Labour government, acceding to trade union and other militant demands, radicalised its policies against the private sector and the UK&#039;s Nato commitments.

The incidents built into MI5&#039;s futuristic vision include a deliberate fire at one of London&#039;s main water treatment plants, an attempted terrorist attack by frogmen on the Isle of Grain oil refinery, a vehicle bomb attack on a radar station, and a suitcase bomb without warning on the London Underground …&lt;/em&gt;

Isn&#039;t the second paragraph exactly what MI5 is meant to worry about? Especially as actual real terrorists were letting off real bombs and killing actual people at the time?

Still, it&#039;s a data point of sorts, but I doubt it tells us much more. The security services thought there was serious political tension in 1974-5? Who didn&#039;t?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>In the final days of the Wilson era, MI5 drafted a contingency paper based on a scenario in which a Labour government, acceding to trade union and other militant demands, radicalised its policies against the private sector and the UK&#8217;s Nato commitments.</p>
<p>The incidents built into MI5&#8242;s futuristic vision include a deliberate fire at one of London&#8217;s main water treatment plants, an attempted terrorist attack by frogmen on the Isle of Grain oil refinery, a vehicle bomb attack on a radar station, and a suitcase bomb without warning on the London Underground …</em></p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t the second paragraph exactly what MI5 is meant to worry about? Especially as actual real terrorists were letting off real bombs and killing actual people at the time?</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s a data point of sorts, but I doubt it tells us much more. The security services thought there was serious political tension in 1974-5? Who didn&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: daggi</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5202</link>
		<dc:creator>daggi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5202</guid>
		<description>Didn´t Lord Carver admit all of this years ago? Admittedly, not the same as MI5 papers, but a big hint. I think the AWL pamphlet &quot;Socialism and Democracy&quot;, made mainly up of the text of a public debate between Michael Foot and Sean Matgamna, goes into more detail than I can currently remember - and I seem to remember that booklet being one of the better things published by a group on the far left (or so it seemed to me at the age of 16).

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn´t Lord Carver admit all of this years ago? Admittedly, not the same as MI5 papers, but a big hint. I think the AWL pamphlet &#8220;Socialism and Democracy&#8221;, made mainly up of the text of a public debate between Michael Foot and Sean Matgamna, goes into more detail than I can currently remember &#8211; and I seem to remember that booklet being one of the better things published by a group on the far left (or so it seemed to me at the age of 16).</p>
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		<title>By: daggi</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5201</link>
		<dc:creator>daggi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5201</guid>
		<description>Didn´t Lord Carver admit all of this years ago? Admittedly, not the same as MI5 papers, but a big hint. I think the AWL pamphlet &quot;Socialism and Democracy&quot;, made mainly up of the text of a public debate between Michael Foot and Sean Matgamna, goes into more detail than I can currently remember - and I seem to remember that booklet being one of the better things published by a group on the far left (or so it seemed to me at the age of 16).

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn´t Lord Carver admit all of this years ago? Admittedly, not the same as MI5 papers, but a big hint. I think the AWL pamphlet &#8220;Socialism and Democracy&#8221;, made mainly up of the text of a public debate between Michael Foot and Sean Matgamna, goes into more detail than I can currently remember &#8211; and I seem to remember that booklet being one of the better things published by a group on the far left (or so it seemed to me at the age of 16).</p>
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		<title>By: Indecent_Leftist</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5200</link>
		<dc:creator>Indecent_Leftist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5200</guid>
		<description>I dont expect the british public would sit idly by whilst a government it elected is crushed under the heel of the toff jackboot. So nothing to get too worried about really

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont expect the british public would sit idly by whilst a government it elected is crushed under the heel of the toff jackboot. So nothing to get too worried about really</p>
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		<title>By: Brynley</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5199</link>
		<dc:creator>Brynley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 10:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5199</guid>
		<description>The available evidence is of a serious minority in MI5 with a coup mentality and a conspiratorial sense of extra-democratic grievance, set against against polite, sceptical listeners in the military top brass.

The highest ranked military plotter against whom there is evidence, held the rank of Colonel, which given the stable, professional ethos of the British officer caste, hardly counts.

What the military did was hype up a security operation at Heathrow, sending a message if you like, but that message was definitely not that we, the military, are bent on a coup.

What we need and do not have yet, are memoirs written in retirement which give fact and flavour of the approaches the plotters made to the military, how these were received and dealt with.

It is not impossible that these have been written and are lying in locked rosewood writing bureaux awaiting the death of the author.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The available evidence is of a serious minority in MI5 with a coup mentality and a conspiratorial sense of extra-democratic grievance, set against against polite, sceptical listeners in the military top brass.</p>
<p>The highest ranked military plotter against whom there is evidence, held the rank of Colonel, which given the stable, professional ethos of the British officer caste, hardly counts.</p>
<p>What the military did was hype up a security operation at Heathrow, sending a message if you like, but that message was definitely not that we, the military, are bent on a coup.</p>
<p>What we need and do not have yet, are memoirs written in retirement which give fact and flavour of the approaches the plotters made to the military, how these were received and dealt with.</p>
<p>It is not impossible that these have been written and are lying in locked rosewood writing bureaux awaiting the death of the author.</p>
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		<title>By: Lobby Ludd</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5198</link>
		<dc:creator>Lobby Ludd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5198</guid>
		<description>From th FT, reporting papers from 1976:

&quot;The incidents built into MI5&#039;s futuristic vision include a deliberate fire at one of London&#039;s main water treatment plants, an attempted terrorist attack by frogmen on the Isle of Grain oil refinery, a vehicle bomb attack on a radar station, and a suitcase bomb without warning on the London Underground …

The paper suggests that MI5 believed the security of the state was under threat from the political pressures building up during the 1970s, and was preparing plans to deal with such a threat, which it saw as mainly coming from the left.&quot;

My reading of the article leaves me puzzled. Did MI5 really plan &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt; these incidents, or plan to enact them so that a state of emergency could be called; were these considered potential IRA actions? Without these considerations, the security services and the &#039;establishment&#039; forces that would support them are made to look foolish and incompetent. They did, however, wield not inconsiderable influence. Perhaps competence and calm consideration were not necessary virtues for a job in the security services.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From th FT, reporting papers from 1976:</p>
<p>&#8220;The incidents built into MI5&#8242;s futuristic vision include a deliberate fire at one of London&#8217;s main water treatment plants, an attempted terrorist attack by frogmen on the Isle of Grain oil refinery, a vehicle bomb attack on a radar station, and a suitcase bomb without warning on the London Underground …</p>
<p>The paper suggests that MI5 believed the security of the state was under threat from the political pressures building up during the 1970s, and was preparing plans to deal with such a threat, which it saw as mainly coming from the left.&#8221;</p>
<p>My reading of the article leaves me puzzled. Did MI5 really plan <i>against</i> these incidents, or plan to enact them so that a state of emergency could be called; were these considered potential IRA actions? Without these considerations, the security services and the &#8216;establishment&#8217; forces that would support them are made to look foolish and incompetent. They did, however, wield not inconsiderable influence. Perhaps competence and calm consideration were not necessary virtues for a job in the security services.</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-5197</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidosler.com/2006/12/1976-britain-on-the-brink-of-a-military-coup/#comment-5197</guid>
		<description>[Those forces which plotted against Wilson are still very much with us, there are powerful people in the establishment who will do anything to bring down a Labour government]

They have no particular problem with the current flavour of Labour government.  Dorril and Ramsay&#039;s book is very good on this.  The forces lined up against Wilson were not those of global capitalism or any such - he was on the right of the party by most standards - but those of US foreign policy.  Wilson was an oddity in that he&#039;d never been part of the Atlanticist element of the Labour right.  Blair (and Brown, both via Mandelson) definitely are.

They&#039;re both veterans of the British American Project and all that cavalcade of organisations, the ones that it is presumably unserious or &quot;conspiratorial&quot; to refer to as secret societies.  They&#039;ve got exactly the pedigree in terms of their political and career development that the anti-Wilson elements wanted.  I suspect that at a conservative estimate it would these days take twenty years before there was any chance at all of electing a government that would have any chance of being overthrown.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Those forces which plotted against Wilson are still very much with us, there are powerful people in the establishment who will do anything to bring down a Labour government]</p>
<p>They have no particular problem with the current flavour of Labour government.  Dorril and Ramsay&#8217;s book is very good on this.  The forces lined up against Wilson were not those of global capitalism or any such &#8211; he was on the right of the party by most standards &#8211; but those of US foreign policy.  Wilson was an oddity in that he&#8217;d never been part of the Atlanticist element of the Labour right.  Blair (and Brown, both via Mandelson) definitely are.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re both veterans of the British American Project and all that cavalcade of organisations, the ones that it is presumably unserious or &#8220;conspiratorial&#8221; to refer to as secret societies.  They&#8217;ve got exactly the pedigree in terms of their political and career development that the anti-Wilson elements wanted.  I suspect that at a conservative estimate it would these days take twenty years before there was any chance at all of electing a government that would have any chance of being overthrown.</p>
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